Kathy Broady’s Thoughts about Trolls and Online Safety
The 10-question survey about the new Discussing Dissociation Community Forum is getting filled out by bunches of interested trauma survivors. This is excellent to see! I am so very very appreciative to hear from each and every one of you. Thank you! Not to worry, if you haven’t filled out your answers, there’s still time to do so. And please do! I’ll be happy to hear from you too.
While reading through the answers provided on the survey, there are several repeated themes. One theme, in particular has come up over, and over, and over.
Trolls.
According to the comments being received on the survey, y’all are worried about trolls. No one wants to to have the Forum wrecked or ruined by trolls.
I realize this is a difficult and complicated topic, and I couldn’t agree with you more. So while the topic of trolls is on your mind, I want to make a few comments myself.
Definition of Internet Trolls and Gaslighting
I despise trolls.
I truly cannot tolerate people hiding behind the anonymity of the internet, and using any online platform to bully, intimidate, attack, trick, deceive, coerce, or abuse other people.
Words on a screen come from real people and are read by other real people. Words can trigger. Words can stir emotions. Words can induce switching. Words can create chaos. Words can hurt.
In my opinion, trolls are predators and abusers. They are no different than the perpetrators out there who hurt, offend, and abuse people in real-life situations.
Wikipedia defines an internet troll like this:
“In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion, whether for the troll’s amusement or a specific gain.
This sense of both the noun and the verb “troll” is associated with Internet discourse, but also has been used more widely. Media attention in recent years has equated trolling with online harassment.”
Trolls are often experts at gaslighting.
Wikipedia defines gaslighting as:
“Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim’s belief.”
That all adds up to say that yes, trolls do a lot of damage, create a lot of hurt, and wreak far too much havoc.
So of course, I agree with your survey comments completely. I don’t want trolls around either!
I believe that dissociative trauma survivors have already been hurt far far too much. The amount of hurt and pain that a dissociative trauma survivor has endured is just beyond comprehension. It’s not like there is an “allowed fair quota” for how much trauma people can have in their lives, but if there was such a thing, DID survivors have far far far exceeded this amount.
DID survivors certainly do not need to battle with trolls, struggle with gaslighting, or endure more emotional abuse. Internet trolls have no right to abuse anyone, especially not the trauma survivors who are part of this healing community.
Trolling is seriously a form of abuse, and it’s seriously wrong.
The Importance of Online Safety
I have taught about internet safety before, and on the eve of building a new forum community, it’s a perfect time to bring this topic back to the surface.
In this day and age, internet safety is essential. Taking good care of yourself online, and for DID survivors, protecting your system from internet predators is crucial.
Keep your privacy. Don’t share your legal name. Don’t share your contact details, or your address, or your bank account. Don’t fall for scams. Don’t send money to weird or unverified places. Be extremely careful about who you buddy-up with. Make sure there is an accountability to who the person is. Keep your internet relationships visible and transparent. Make sure that your internet relationships are not hidden in secret, and not tucked away where no one else knows that person is talking to you.
And if you are feeling bullied, or harassed, or pushed, or controlled, or manipulated, believe yourself, believe in your feelings, and get immediate distance from that person.
Most definitely take some time away and have an honest look at this relationship.
Describe it in detail with your therapist or a trusted friend, and get some perspective on what’s happening. Listen closely to your insiders, and get a full accounting of what everyone in your system sees and hears.
Don’t just pretend nothing is wrong when there really could be everything wrong.
Your safety depends on having the courage and the willingness to really see what is going on.
Cyber Safety for Dissociative Trauma Survivors
For dissociative trauma survivors who have soooo many wounded areas, young child parts, troubles with switching and amnesia, too many blind spots, or unhealthy compulsions to go towards predators, this is a particularly important topic.
Certain people in your system will be more vulnerable than others. It is highly important that your system protectors are fully aware of all relationships at all times. Your protectors cannot protect you if they do not have all information available to them.
Please note: If you are experiencing time loss and unexpected switching or uncontrolled switching while you are in a particular relationship, this is a big giant red flag. Let the changes or wobbles in your system’s behavior be the barometer that tells you when something or someone is not okay or safe.
Internet predators, just like in-real-life person predators, know how to groom their victims. They know how to pretend to be a friend, pretend to be kind, pretend to be understanding…. only to dig in their abusive claws before the dissociative person sees it coming.
This is horribly tricky and sneaky deceptive because, as you know, one of the areas I teach is all about being kind to each other.
Yes, of course, I want you to be kind to each other — inside and out.
Genuine kindness and compassion are essential for healing.
Lots of the readers have seen my soft and compassionate side. Many of you have even experienced my soft side, when meeting in person, in blog comments, in emails, or Phone Consultations. It is true — I have a gentle, tender heart. I feel much tenderness for the dissociative survivor community, and my soapboxes are all about treating people and their systems with kindness. I really do believe in gentleness, love, kindness, compassion, peace, goodness.
However…
When Providing Internet Safety at This Blog
I am not a pushover.
And while I approach trauma survivors with kindness, I feel quite fiercely protective over my people, and fiercely protective over my area, and I have no problems shutting the door on abusive behaviors.
I do not want people to get hurt.
I especially do not want MY people to get hurt.
I take a very strong and active stance on protecting and sheltering the people who rely on me. I do whatever I can to keep this environment safe and untarnished by predators.
I hope your system leaders follow my example because it is crucial to protect your people from abusers too. It takes time. It takes effort. It takes persistence.
This is why every single comment on this blog — all 9,453 comments as of this moment — have been read by me, and either approved or NOT approved for public view. Many comments have been edited by me for privacy purposes or to add trigger warnings, etc.
It has taken a lot of time to read — and potentially edit — all 9,453 comments.
But it’s worth it, and I will NOT post comments that have troll-like slurs in them. Safety matters, and troll-abuse is not accepted here.
Freedom of Speech vs Internet Trolls
Of course, there is a fine line between genuine conversations and addressing conflict and expressing difficult emotions in acceptable ways, versus expressing anger in hurtful or damaging or unacceptable ways.
Also, “already known” people in an online community can express a wider range of negative emotion than unknown people. Recognizing someone as a genuine, valid, long-standing member of the community automatically provides a different context than an anonymous troll who doesn’t care who they hurt.
It’s good to be real, to have freedom of expression, to have the ability to talk about your feelings, even your hurt feelings, without needing to attack or insult other people.
I think the quality of the comments here at Discussing Dissociation proves what I’m referring to. Of course, some of the topics discussed here are heavy, and emotional, and potentially triggering. That comes with the territory of talking about trauma and abuse, no matter what.
But the community spirit here at Discussing Dissociation is one of kindness, friendship, support, and understanding. We do not attack each other here. We can speak openly, and we can even address conflict or concerns or misunderstandings. But at all times, there is a clear expectation that we speak with respect towards each other.
There are no trolls here. They are not allowed!
What about Trolls and Online Safety in the Forum?
Let’s think about this.
I’ve had this Discussing Dissociation blog for over 9 ½ years. That’s a long time.
In 9 ½ years, there are nearly 10,000 comments posted on this blog.
And in 9 ½ years, the comment section of this blog has been free of spam and trolls.
If I do not allow trolls on this very public blog, do you think I will allow trolls to participate in a private forum?
Absolutely NOT!
I will state this loud and clear:
I will not allow trolls to post on my blog, and I certainly will not allow trolls to destroy the Forum Community either.
How Will Trolls be Managed in the Forum?
First of all, we are not inviting any trolls to join the forum.
I’ll say it now: “If you are a troll, stop where you are, turn around, and go away. You are not welcome here, and there is no room for you. Don’t bother coming in because we don’t want you around.”
Secondly, trolls have an endless buffet of free places to go, so lots of trolls will hesitate to pay the Forum Membership fees. It will be money wasted because they will get kicked out. On that basis alone, I would hope that trolls will be less likely to enter this private forum area.
But even if some troll-type person does join the forum…. Laura and I are prepared to knock them right back out, hard and fast.
Meaning, if anyone wants to mess up or undermine the Discussing Dissociation Community Forum, or be purposefully disruptive, or cause harm, they will be swiftly removed.
Inappropriate posts and inappropriate behavior will NOT be tolerated in the Discussing Dissociation Community Forum. Laura is already preparing long lists of Forum Guidelines, which include behavior requirements. Negative and destructive behavior of any sort will simply not be tolerated.
The threat of trolls is not taken lightly. Laura and I are committed to being swift, severe, and unwavering about the removal of trolls or anyone with abusive behavior.
Believe me, we will be massively UNIMPRESSED by any troll-like interruptions to our safe place.
Didn’t I start this post by saying I despise trolls?
There’s a very good chance that I hate trolls more than you do!
In all seriousness, Laura and I have already had many discussions about this troll topic, and we agree to err on the side of caution and anyone who appears to be causing troubles and damaging disruption will be quickly suspended or quickly banned from the forum.
WE DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR TROLLS.
WE DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR TROUBLE MAKERS.
WE WILL NOT HAVE ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR IN OUR FORUM.
You can bet on that.
I want the Discussing Dissociation Community Forum to be as safe and troll-free as the Discussing Dissociation blog comments have been.
No doubt about it.
Information about the Discussing Dissociation Community Forum
The DDCF Forum is OPEN!
You are invited to join, and to participate with the dozens of other dissociative trauma survivors who are busy posting on a daily basis.
In about 15 minutes from right now, you could be participating in this wonderful and supportive environment.
If you’d like to know more about this exciting DID Forum, please go here:
Develop Friendly Relationships At The Discussing Dissociation Community Forum
Unfortunately, all too many DID Forums are notorious for conflict and chaos. We’ve done our very best to eliminate many of those concerns by learning from what does NOT work at other forums, and by doing something different. When comparing DDCF to other forums, DDCF has a unique structure and approach to creating safety and support.
10 Ways the DDCF Environment is safe for DID Systems:
1. No behind the scenes personal messaging possible. No one can manipulate or intimidate you in secret.
2. No hidden contact possible — all conversations are visible to all Forum Members and Forum Leaders. Visible accountability keeps all conversations healthier and positive.
3. No personal email or personal contact information listed — no one can contact you outside of the Forum.
4. No personal information is exposed. No birthdates listed, no viewing history, no gender requirements, no location identification, no social media links, no posting statistics, etc.
5. No delete button —- this avoids troll-like situations where hurtful/harmful posts are made but then erased to avoid being accountable for destructive statements.
6. No competition or posting races or levelling up to “be better” than other forum members. This means each post made is for genuine conversation — not for increasing a number count.
7. No status or social discrepancies. No one member can be “liked” more than others. Everyone is a valued member. There is no such thing as a “dislike button” at DDCF.
8. No flashing ads to trigger or distract or manipulate your thoughts.
9. No visibility to the public, to search engines, to unregistered lurkers.
10. No negative behaviors tolerated. All Forum Members agree upfront to maintain healthy posts, kind conversation, and to contribute to a positive, supportive environment.
We value safety and support, and hope that our DID Forum environment works well for you too!
Please feel free to join in whenever you are ready.
Previous information found here:
Discussing Dissociation Community Forum Early Bird List
You are invited to join the Early Bird Notification List and to complete a 10-question survey about forum related topics.
Your thoughts and opinions, hopes and concerns are more than welcome.
How about we go onward and upward with the supportive healing.
And may we all be troll free !!
Thanks for reading, and I appreciate your interest.
I hope to see you at the Forum!
Warmly,
Kathy
Copyright © 2008-2019 Kathy Broady MSW and Discussing Dissociation
Boundaries? YES!
Would like to contribute a cautionary tale, altho still wrestling whether or not we actually belong here.
Too often we fear being “outed” as an “imposter,” since our “multiplicity” was primarily iatrogenic.
FULL DISCLOSURE:
In retrospect, it was not really amnestic or a genuine “fugue state.” Doesn’t being disingenuous qualify as “malingering”?
When someone extraordinarily suggestive and compliant is repeatedly told they will NOT remember something, they generally don’t.
Formal dx first revealed itself and blossomed under hypnotic regression and amytal interviews. We were coached and rewarded” for being a Gold Star pt (sickest of the accursed), a scarlet letter we proudly bore many yrs past.
Long halcyon wkends we spent together, traveling extensively on holiday. We only serendipitously met and were assigned one another whilst recovering in ICU from another OD.
Once he completed residency, he took us along into his private practice. We always felt “honoured” and “special,” never worried about a bill.
He said he “loved” us. He proudly introduced us. Meanwhile, we continued “working,” excavating the past. Everyone agreed this was no mere “transference,” right? Mucho confuso!
When he eventually “dumped” us w/ no explanation, would not return our calls or see us again, our coterie fell apart and turned on each other BIG TIME.
That was aeons ago, but we’ve never since disclosed his name or done more than fantacize a murder-suicide scenario.
However, much later, in another place and time, it happened again! Theme and variations. How dumb can someone be when they continue stepping on the same snare?
“Life goes on,
I forget just why.”
— Edna St. Vincent Millay
Nevertheless, point being: we’ve enjoyed reading ALL your remarks, Kathy’s warm-hearted commentary and support, whilst basking in and soaking up the preponderance of concern and acceptance herein.
P.S. Still haven’t managed to navigate the site well enuff to post a formal Intro. FAIL. Lo Siento. 🐈
kathylady you be doing a great job of keeping the forum safe. you be like a mama bear. you take care of everybudy good.
Enjoyed reading through this, very good stuff, thank you .
Thank You Kathy & Laura! You have done tons of work & preparation to help us feel safe. I do feel safe & protected by all your wisdom & work. We think it will be an excellent forum & we are so ready to get going. Thank you for caring so much about us & providing a “home” for us who feel so isolated & alone. We see the Forum like a living room with about 10,000 locks on the door to keep those inside safe & comfortable where we can have warm conversations that are private & protected. I hope we aren’t gullible like we’ve been called, but we believe you. We are ready to make some friends that understand us, & excited about the things that you & Laura will teach us. We are ready for this! 😊😄🙂🙃🤓🤗😛😐😳🙃😆😉😶🤔🤔🤔
KATHY
HOW WILL YOU KEEP EVERYONE SAFE?Y YOU KNOW THAT THIS SYSTEM HAS A VERY INTELLIGENT TEN YEAR OLD. ONE OF BRLINDA SUGGESTIONS WAS AN INTERNAL CONTRACT. THAT NOBODY GIVES OUT BIRTH NAME ADDRESS OR PHONE NUMBERS. PEOPLE WENT BALLISTIC . SAYING HOW THIS FORM WAS TO BE IN REAL TIME NO WAITING FOR APPROVAL. ON THE COMMENTS.
Hi Lori2,
Yes, I think about things like that as well. I’m still having talks with Laura about all this stuff, because there are lots of details to figure out.
One thing that will be VERY important is that each person, well, each System will absolutely need to be aware of their own personal safety and their own personal privacy. I will be doing everything I can to make the environment as safe as possible, but yes, it will also be up to each and every group members to keep the environment safe as well. Everyone will need a high level of personal accountability and we will be having an Accountability section. Of course, any post that breaches the guidelines will be addressed in whatever manner is required.
Yes, I will certainly suggest / ask / encourage that no one ever gives out their birth name, their address, or their phone number. Handing out personal contact information to someone else who is “anonymous” to you is not a safe thing to do, not in this situation, not in most situations, anywhere in the world.
I agree with Belinda about your system having an internal contract about that personal safety. What is it that made your people go ballistic about that?
The forum will be a little bit closer to real-life relationships, where you can’t really know what is going to happen ahead of time, or know what the other person will say. It can be a place for people to grow more skills, because practice in setting boundaries is an important skill to learn. Practice in recognizing triggers and knowing how to step back, or how to handle them is an important skill to learn. Practice disengaging from unhealthy conflict or chaos is an important skill to learn. Knowing and discerning who is safe to connect with, from who you need more distance from, are important skills to learn, etc.
So while the forum may present the potential for some uncomfortable social experiences, a big point for even having a forum is to learn, to grow, to develop new skills, and to practice building HEALTHY relationships. Yes, we will be removing trouble from the Forum as quickly as possible, absolutely. However, my hope is that there will be much more focus on POSITIVE relationships.
The overall goal being, if you take what you are learning in the forum, and discuss it further within your system, and with Belinda, your internal group should hopefully be making obvious steps of progress.
There will be lots to figure out as it happens, that’s for sure!
You’ve done really well in your interactions here on the blog comments. Hopefully you’ll take the same positive skills you’ve shown here and continue to apply them in the forum too. 🙂
Cheers,
Kathy
I think in general people with DID are good people. I also now we have Fierce Protektor’s. I also know one of our Internal romance is it very inquisitive.
The reason why the system went haywire over Belinda suggestion of an internal contracts to keep everyone safe . Hey certain 10-year-old girl everybody riled up because she wants to be able to have a real friend. Some parts of they shouldn’t have to police hello Art her decision-making with friends and what information she tells her friends .And other parts felt very strongly we need to be watching over each other all the time.
Hi All,
This is such an important posting on so many different levels Kathy. It is vital information and perspective in the context of the new forum, but also everything that we do in the virtual world and our face-to-face lives. Just such an important reminder that we are strong, capable and responsible for ourselves, our insiders and everything that we do collectively as multiples.
Key points from my perspective (taken directly from Kathy’s posting):
• each System will absolutely need to be aware of their own personal safety and their own personal privacy
• it will also be up to each and every group members to keep the environment safe
• everyone will need a high level of personal accountability
and furthermore …
• the forum … can be a place for people to grow more skills, because practice in setting boundaries is an important skill to learn
• a forum is to learn, to grow, to develop new skills, and to practice building HEALTHY relationships
Bang on!!! We have to be mindful that we are responsible for ourselves. That includes our insiders. As separate as they feel to us, they are us. There is no scapegoating to our insiders or waiting for someone to rescue us. We had all control taken away from us when we were little, vulnerable and dependent. The trauma that our little selves endured does not have to define us now. It is time that we take back our lives for ourselves. That means taking responsibility for us … all of us.
Okay, if you are like me, I have a lot to learn about how to do this. But, as Kathy has so rightly pointed out, the forum will be a safe place for us to practice new skills and ways of being in the world. We have been doing that here on the DD blog. Now we get to venture into a whole setting.
Just jazzed about the adventure to come!
ME+WE
10/13/18
ME+WE,
I’m jazzed too! I was a part of a DID forum for several years, but it got super toxic and weird. I had to leave or was kicked out, I can’t remember. It was a little traumatizing though because it had become such a great source of help. Which is good, but…
I think we need to remember that this forum, while a super fabulous resource, will not be the answer to all our problems. It will be a place to collaborate, discuss and support one another, but we have to be careful not to be so dependent on it that we risk our own safety. This is something I struggle with. Sometimes the need to connect becomes a NEED to connect, if you know what I mean. It can cause us to look blindly past red flags. This is where we all as a community have to be diligent. We must take ownership over our own safety.
Yep, this blog will be a great resource and practice for us all. I’m really looking forward to it. And hope that I can participate.
MultipleMe
10/14/18
Hi MultipleMe,
I agree. When you think about it, as adult as we are, we are really little children in our hearts and minds seeking love and connection but being not too sure just where it is safe to do so. We have to take responsibility for ourselves that is sure. We also have to learn when and where to trust. Such a fine line to walk between boundaries and letting folks in.
With what we have experienced – having all of our boundaries violated when we were at our most vulnerable age – it is hard to know how to establish boundaries let alone protect them. Two years ago when I first started to work with my horse “therapists” the facilitator had me do an exercise that was simply establishing my boundary by scratching it into the silt floor of the arena. I could not do it. I later figured out that I had learned that it was less painful for me not to have boundaries in the first place then for me to have my boundaries violated.
So, we now get to practice establishing boundaries, being responsible for ourselves and building true friendships (as we have been doing here already). I do not want to live my life in the paralysis of fear that every person I meet may be a potential abuser. On the other hand, I am mindful that there are some bad people out there so I need to step out with some caution. But, on the whole, I would rather lead with my heart and risk being disappointed then lock my heart up and never allow it to feel true friendship.
ME+WE
10/13/18
Hi Friends,
This has been a great discussion of the potential risks and fears that come with participating in a community (any community – face-to-face or virtual) and the negatives associated with virtual space, in particular. It is important to point these potential dangers out and to vent our own fears and experiences. I am in awe of the courage and commitment of folks here to share their stories.
If I may, I would like to put another spin on this discussion. My concern is that we not let our fears and bad experiences deflect us from the great opportunity that a forum here represents. I guess that my thought is that I do not wish for us to sink into hyper-vigilance, fear and paralysis of what might be but rather to turn our focus into the wonderful prospect of sharing as a community in a safe, respectful, compassionate and understanding space. That does not mean that we do not remain on watch for any danger that might enter in (and I emphasize “might” here). But we need to step back from past experience and potential dangers and assess the reasonable reality of what is and what is likely to be.
Here is my take on the forum.
1. We have Kathy at the helm. As I have said previously, she is smart (in an academic, professional and street-smart way), passionate, fearless, vigilant and compassionate in all that she does. She will not let anyone mess with the forum.
2. We have Laura as the second pilot on this endeavor. We have not gotten to know Laura as well as Kathy but everything that she has put out here has been honest, forthright, compassionate, caring and well-informed. I have utmost confidence in her ability and desire to make the forum a safe and productive space.
3. There is already a track record here for us to see. The DD website and all of the thousands of comments that Kathy’s articles have spawned over the past nine and a half years. I have seen some grumpy posts, some differences in perspective/opinion and some anger expressed here … okay, some of these were mine ☺ … but, they have all been dealt with respectfully, honestly, and compassionately.
4. I am assuming that there will be rules and protocols established for the conduct of participants. This is fair and reasonable. So, rules and protocols might state that certain language and topics are not allowed in sections for little ones for example. Just a standard of conduct on what is okay and where.
5. The rules and protocols can also have a mechanism for revoking privileges of participants. This is a closed forum. Kathy holds ultimate control to say if someone is not conducting themself in a responsible and respectful way. There need not be any prolonged debate or harm directed at anyone on the forum. Kathy and Laura can have control to put a participant on warning or remove them from the forum. Abuse on the forum (whether that be trolls, operators, outsides like pharmaceutical companies or just mean-spirited folks) does not need to be accepted or prolonged. It can be shut down very quickly.
6. We have our own common sense to say – “hold it … stop … this is not right”, to call out something that does not feel right or to inform Kathy and Laura about something that is disturbing to us. Now, I always like to say that the first step in online discourse is to ask the other person to clarify what they have said. In other words, if someone says something that makes you feel angry or hurts you or seems hateful to you in any way or whatever that strikes you as not right, ask them to clarify their point first. It may be that they did not mean to say what they said (i.e., that it came out the wrong way) or that you misinterpreted what the other person was saying. I always ask first to make sure that what was written was meant. Then, if it was, call it out. If it does not stop, give a shout out to Kathy and Laura.
7. You are not alone. We are a community. We watch out for one another. We can do this on the forum or we can contact Kathy and Laura privately if we think that something is not right.
Bottom line in my mind, there are all kinds of checks and balances that can be put in place, are already in place, to ensure that the forum is a safe place. I am not saying that we ignore the potential for harm, quite the contrary. But, I do not think that we have to go looking for it either or live in fear that it will happen. The proof is here already on the DD website.
Just my two cent’s … well make that a nickel’s worth! ☺
ME+WE
09/29/18
Hey ME+WE,
Wow — really really appreciate this post! This is a great way to remind everyone that yes, while there can be difficulties, there ARE LOTS OF THINGS we can do as a COMMUNITY to keep our place safe.
We ALL are in control of what happens here in this group, and we ALL can decide what behavior is acceptable in our forum, and we ALL have a say in how we interact with each other. It’s not all up to only me and Laura — it’s a Forum for everyone who appreciates it, and the more EVERYone protects it, the better it will be!
I especially like, ME+WE, how you emphasized our STRENGTHS in your points #6 and #7. No one is without a voice here, and yes, absolutely everyone will have the opportunity to help protect what I believe will be an enormously valuable resource.
Our group — US — ALL of US — can keep the Forum safe, just like ALL of US, here in this Blog Community have kept the postings HERE safe.
Such a valuable point, and thank you for highlighting that.
Warmly,
Kathy
Thank you for saying how much you are and will be watching out for us! I am aware I can get in spurts of writing – either from Objective’s desire to declare what he sees – or from the “babble” mode of some part who is doing some outward processing……which tends to freak me out later because I fear that I said WAY too much……I get brave enough for words to come out because I see ya’ll using “words and phrases” that I identify with – because it matches how “I” feel…..most of the time in my Outside life I feel too different, too weird, too “not understood”…..so this place feels like “home” for me…..
I know that in my past Outside life I have gotten into some especially emotionally abusive situations because I didn’t know how to recognize abuse and if I DID feel something was a little “off” – I didn’t know what to do about it – I would just feel frozen and let stuff happen…..until finally Rage bubbled up and helped me to make the break……
I am very basic computer-wise and didn’t know what you meant by “trolls” – WAY behind times, aren’t I??!! You are the first blog I have every commented on and I have never been part of a forum – so thank you for watching out for us!
I am glad you can recognize abuse so quickly – that is one of things I am learning from you….
Hi MissyMing,
Oh so beautifully said …
“I get brave enough for words to come out because I see ya’ll using “words and phrases” that I identify with – because it matches how “I” feel…..most of the time in my Outside life I feel too different, too weird, too “not understood”…..so this place feels like “home” for me…..”
My T thinks it is interesting (yet not surprising) that my favourite movie is The Wizard of Oz. There just is something about clicking your heels and saying … “there’s no place like home.” Well, for so many of us our homes were places that we wanted to escape. It is so wonderful to find a “home” where folks speak the same language; understand the struggle for life; are safe and respectful; and who share with caring, compassion and insight.
Thank you for reminding us of how important our “home” is here MissyMing.
ME+WE
10/01/18
Excellent comment, MissyMing, and thanks for sharing that.
I’ve not know you to say too much — all your posts have been positive, helpful, about processing, working through your feelings, etc. These kinds of comments are definitely allowed, and you’ve done just fine. I appreciate you as a member of our Community, and by all means, feel free to keep posting!
Lots of folks who grew up in a life where they were abused over and over tend to have trouble recognizing abusive behavior. It just feels “normal” — that’s how it is, right? Often, a lot of the healing process involves learning where the “Don’t Go Past Here!” line is, in terms of healthy behavior and emotional responses, so what you are describing is really quite normal for dissociative survivors.
Unfortunately, many trauma survivors, especially as young children, had to learn how to comply with abuse. Or they may have frozen in their fear. This is NOT consenting to abuse — it means, they were forced to learn how to survive thru’ it since they were too young / too powerless / too small to stop it. This is not their fault — we all can get overpowered, and be forced to do things against our will. Your system was strong and brave and smart to find ways to survive all the horribles that you have endured.
And… knowing that you have a part named Rage who knows how to burst out and finally say NO MORE of THAT is actually quite good news. Now… it’s quite possible that your Rage Part will need a little coaching on how and when to do that in the most healthy ways, but just the idea that you have someone in there who has the strength in the here-and-now, to stand up and separate you from abusive behaviors is a really really good thing!
A forum is a lot like how the various conversations go on this Blog, except the format is much more clear and organized so it’s a LOT easier to follow conversations on topics, etc. Plus, it’s more protected from public view, so there is an even greater feeling of safety and privacy. The whole idea of safe community conversation and helpful processing is exactly why a forum is such a great healing tool.
It’s really beautiful to hear that your system feels safe enough here to call this place “home”. I like that! Really like that. That’s exactly the soft but strong community feel I want us to have. Everyone belongs, and we all play a part in creating our beautiful home environment, including you!
Thanks for being here, MissyMing!
Warmly,
Kathy
so in re-reading my first response on this topic here- i kinda think… ok, i know i really was meaning to address it to you kathy… but was too scared to say so…
so… kathy…
for whatever reason a lot got stirred up by this article…
one piece was just oddly enough your wording of article, the sometimes pieces in all caps- (which i know from your videos/podcasts/other articles and responses were much different style)
it made some of us feel yelled at… and also reminiscent of others explaining over and over how or why what they were doing was ok, and that i should believe them based on all the things they said they did- like boasting how much they did what they did- and yet the complete opposite was true…
am actually confused that i know that’s how i felt in reading article- and yet i don’t know exactly who in my life was like that but just know it brought up not feeling safe from people in my past…
and, yes i so know that’s the complete opposite intention your article!
and definitely scared of the caring piece… that you have taken that time over all these years, and all those that finally do get brave enough to post… and you read each of them…
that type of fiercely caring…
my only life experience of that is with my counselor- who’s seen me for 13 years- and it’s still hard to take in from them… so do not know where to put that caring?
and similar feelings then pop up around the caring piece of you physically reading before posting makes me feel extremely guilty for taking up time and space here…
truly thank you for all that you do…
~gracie
9.28.18
Hey gracie –
You are absolutely invited to write posts here! You are allowed space, and time, and a voice, and your opinions are worth expressing. In fact, I think you are very brave in getting clarification, and checking on things, and recognizing what triggers you and your insiders. This is a good bit of work you’ve done here. It’s good to see your brave!
Things are good, gracie, so let me be super clear — for all the gracie people — I most certainly am not angry or upset with you, not at all, not in the slightest. The big letters in this article that I see are there for emphasis about how important safety and kind behavior is. The gracie people have been only kind and gentle in all my readings of anything you’ve written. I haven’t seen you write a single mean word, not anywhere. 😊
I’m glad that you are able to know and recognize that your scared feelings are attached to something from feeling unsafe in the past. It sounds like you’ve been hurt far too much, and I’m sorry people were ever mean to you. Keep talking with your counselor about this stuff, and more of your system will get healing. It sounds like you’re on the right path.
Genuine caring is a good thing — and maybe — it gets its very own new category for you. I’m happy to hear your counselor has shown you lots of positive caring for a long time — that’s excellent news. And, now you are getting to see that there are other caring people out in the world — folks who actually do not want to hurt you.
At the same time, it’s super important to be checking that out, and that’s why I’m so glad to see you being brave!
Good work!
Warmly,
Kathy
Hi
It actually made me cry to think that there is someone out there that can be so fiercely protective…and sad that we didn’t have that as a kid. But, I am happy to hear that you take all of this so seriously. Reading some of the comments scared me even more because I had never even thought of some of the scary ways people can hurt others online. I will never understand why people want to hurt others! I am very cautious and tend to be very quiet until I feel some amount of trust and even then am very scared about letting anyone too close. BUT…that keeps us feeling very sad, alone and like I am some kind of crazy freak that no one could ever understand. Soooo I am willing to try because I’ve been reading your blog and watching your videos for a couple years now and you seem safe Kathy. Honestly, I do not know Laura or the others who were mentioned and so they scare me some but I’ll try to trust that you would not have unsafe people here. Anyway, thank you for being a “fierce Mama bear”, as ME+WE said!!
Hi CrowdedInside,
Thanks for your comment, and having the courage to share some of your feelings. You’re being very brave!
I agree with you — I will never understand, specifically in situations where there are free choices, why someone would purposefully choose to hurt or attack or injure someone else. The predator brain is just beyond my comprehension. I guess I have far too much compassion for those who are wounded or being hurt to ever think I would or could feel “happy” when someone else was being injured. Cruelty is just not necessary.
CrowdedInside, you are right to be cautious about letting others get close to you, but as you are saying, if your walls are up too high, no one can get close, and yes, of course, that leaves you feel alone and isolated. It’s important to find that balance.
I’m glad to see that you have been checking out this site for awhile, and feeling secure enough to take a few steps forward. Yes, I will do all that I can to protect you, and keep this place safe. I’m assuming by the name “CrowdedInside” that you are DID — and with that being the case, I can also promise you that you are not a freak. Not at all. You might be plural, but that’s been your survival, so you know… I think you’ve been hugely strong and courageous in your life. Anyone who suffers extreme pain and yet maintains a strong aversion to giving pain to others is a hero in my eyes!
It’s a big big big thing to earn even an ounce of your trust, to thank you! I appreciate that, and please do keep reading and watching those videos. I’ll be adding more and more in the upcoming years too, so… you can rest assured I’ll be here and not going away.
Thank you for your beautiful comment. It’s good to hear from you!
Warmly,
Kathy
I’m so glad you are being open and discussing this topic. Trolls are a major problem. I belong to a site where they have caused enormous problems and brought grief to many people. Gratefully the site is still up and running but the owner is traumatized and deeply harmed by what happened.
The Internet can be a dangerous place, but as you said taking appropriate precautions can keep one out of trouble.
I wish you well on your new forum adventure!
Hi Shirley,
It’s great to hear from you again! 🙂 I hope you are doing well.
Forums are like any social gathering — all sorts of different folks may walk up to the doors and want in, but it’s up to the Leaders AND the Community to decide who gets to stay and participate.
I am very very aware of how painful Forums / Social Settings can be. Groups can be some of the very very best support ever, or can lead to some painfully difficult experiences.
I HOPE that the whole of the Discussing Dissociation Community will help PROTECT this blog and the forum. I certainly don’t want to be traumatized or harmed by hosting a forum, and I don’t want any of the community members to have negative experiences either.
My hope is that we’ve set strong protocols here for how folks are expected to treat each other, because the whole point of having a Forum is creating a safe environment for healing.
No one needs more abuse in their life, no one. Not me, not you, not anyone.
So yes, the more we can all work together to keep our Forum safe and protected from harm, the better it will be for everyone.
It’s definitely important to have these discussions, I agree!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Warmly,
Kathy
Happy to read your passion and dedication here Kathy. Thanks for letting us all know how safe it is 🙂
I was one of those people who mentioned undesirable people in the forum but for us, its not so much trolls cos lets face it, they stick out like sore thumbs LOL. I’ve been a mod of many forums, online fb groups and the like and i have a well developed radar these days for DID fakers; narcissists, toxic people in general (i.e those who are not willing to hear any one else’s opinions or act on the suggested help ideas given and would rather sit and wallow and reach out for endless sympathy/negative attention) and of course trolls but i bet even our radar isn’t as well oiled as yours!
Our concerns are more of a personal nature and how people can pose as survivors, be lovely and helpful but in reality they are up to very very dark and sinister things behind the scenes.
We’ve lived this.
We’ve experienced a pedophile in real life who may or may not have had DID, (who will ever know?) who gained everyone’s trust on a forum and was an extremely highly respected contributor for years and years… He was a moderator and big boss in terms of forum safety and contributors.
It wasn’t until he started pushing boundaries that we as a system (and our hubby) got alarm bells. He wanted to meet in person with others on the forum. Of course it was under a very innocent and noble reasoning…
So perhaps that’s something that can be monitored too in yours? I know you guys know what grooming behaviours are, and that you as trained professionals are more adept at watching out for them, and we completely trust yours and your teams abilities in that. But yeah, we are wary of basically everyone these days LOOOL. And would like to know that every aspect of these grooming behaviours IS being watched by you guys and that you’re not just looking for “trolls” cos lets face it, trolls are a flash in the pan, they come, they make a ruckus and then they get booted. They don’t generally play a long game and stick around for YEARS making and building relationships with survivors…THIS is what unsettles us and makes us paranoid about interacting with ANY unknown person online.
Anyway, just wanted to say thanks again for your hardwork and dedication to this new place and to this more open and public space.
Its really reassuring to know that you’re personally reading all the replies. I kinda thought you’d just check one in every dozen or so. But to know you actually take the time to read each and every single reply to your blogs is amazing. Even paid youtubers and bloggers don’t do that! So big big Kudo’s to you!
Thanks again.
Hey Astrie,
Such a good point, and thanks so much for having the courage to share your story. Such a tragedy, and I am so pleased to hear that you and your hubby recognized the danger signs. Well done, y’all!!
Yes, I am aware of those kinds of predators, and I have had some exposure to that kind of sneaky perpetrator in my earlier years too. Super scary, and horribly disturbing because the situation I knew about was similar to what you are saying — the person claimed to have DID and was everybody’s best friend, and acted like they were so so helpful. And then…. they made many attempts to sneak around behind the scenes and caused a whopping lot of trouble for folks who didn’t recognize the dangers of what was happening.
Do I worry about that kind of predator showing up? Of course. I would be stupid to not be watching for that. Laura and I have certainly talked a million hours about this topic alone. How can we make it safe? How can we keep it as safe as possible? We’ve got some plans and ideas in place to create as much safety as we can, that’s for sure.
However, ultimately, it depends on each and every survivor paying close attention to their online relationships and truly listening to their system for any warning flags at all. It’s all about learning personal safety, recognizing dangerous relationships, and taking solid positive care of everyone in your system. And then… it’s also knowing how to get genuine help because if you find yourself in a relationship that feels predatorial and abusive, it’s crucial to get out of it as quickly as possible. Of course these are skills that need to be learned for in-person relationships as well. It’s of giant importance no matter where people are met.
So yeah — with any online community, the risks are there. At the same time, do I refuse to provide a place of healing and support because there are predators in the world? Well. Isn’t that why trauma survivors were hurt in the first place? Because of predators in the world? So… not offering a place of healing only lets the creeps win a point, and that doesn’t quite sit well with me either.
What I can say, is that Laura and I are going to err on the side of caution, and put as many precautions in ahead of time, and swiftly remove anyone who hints of being a troublemaker. AND, if anyone has ANY concerns or fears, they have people there who can help.
And YES!! I read and approve (or don’t approve) EVERY single comment on this blog. I do it myself. ONLY me. No one else does this job. And sitting at… 9502 comments at this moment in time. 🙂
It’s a big job. That’s for sure. 🙂
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Astrie. Really do appreciate that.
Warmly,
Kathy
Thank you Kathy. That makes us feel much better. I know nothing is totally perfect, but you are really good at keeping us as safe as possible. We are also responsible for keeping us all safe too. So I will be aware and safe for my parts too.
Thanks!
MultipleMe
9/26/18
so… i know your post here kathy wasn’t about me, or only what i was worried about and shared via the survey…
and i guess this is one of those not so fun times of either ambiguity or different parts seeing/ feeling things differently and not reconciling them well…
i might be remembering incorrectly- but i think in survey mention of not so moderated forum- the free one, was where my concern came from… and possibly from your post here i misunderstood- 2 forums? one free, 1 not free… but maybe just one forum total- not free? (and yes, i also have big scares if can’t afford not free one- i saw your other post re: that as well)
another not so fun thing, or hard to know what to do with- is i feel a bit in trouble for being worried about safety stuffs- i know that wasn’t intention, am just trying to be brave and share…(am finding self typing letters quietly so less feel like in trouble)
and last piece… i don’t know what to do with knowing you read every post before allowing it to be seen… i sorta got that was potentially happening behind the scenes… i don’t know what to both do with that type of care… and somehow the guilt i feel by posting (my whole 3rd post i think!!)
i think reading your fierce caring for us and others here is a lot… a lot to find where to put it, let alone let our eyes see and read it??
and as your languaging in your videos, stories, other posts and responses don’t have same cadence as in this one- for a very specific reason was both care-filled… and jarring at same time…
am hoping i found the right words… as it feels scary to put my scared self out there?
and feel something- guilty? not ok? bad? that am somehow looking for reassurances?
and… i’ve truly only been reading on this site for around a year now… so i realize i don’t have the history here that others do…
thanks for your time and your care… (and at same time am sorry that i take up space and time here). erggghhh not so much fun being so openly raw-ish…
Hi Gracie,
First of all, I wanted to say how very brave you are to be jumping in here and speaking from your heart. I know that it can be very hard to do (it took me three years before I got up the courage to post) and sometimes there is just so much going on here and with all of the chaos in our heads … well, there just is a lot to deal with. I know that it may be hard for some of your parts to hear, but you are cared for here and you are safe here and no matter what you need to say or how you say it … it is perfect … it is okay … it is respected. We are here to help and support one another. That is not something that we are used to. So, part of our healing is learning how to take in positive, compassionate regard from others.
Now Kathy is a fierce Momma Bear there is no doubt about that. And, she has a Helper Sister Bear in Laura. So, you can be sure that she will not let anything or anyone hurt us or anyone on her team. She is strong, smart and savvy. And, with over three decades of experience in the trenches, she can sniff out rotten in a flash. It is not about not letting us tell our heart stories and our truths but ensuring that the golden rule of “respect” is adhered to.
And, something that Kathy did not say here (or I missed it) our community is not about to let anyone get hurt either. We are here to watch each other’s backs and to make sure that no trolls dare to try and enter in. There is strength in numbers for sure but, most importantly, we all value and care for this space and each other far too much to let anyone try and mess with it. If we see a problem, we can call it out. If that is too hard to do, we can always contact Kathy, Laura, Claire or Alex privately to put out an alert. We are all responsible for making this space and any future forum open, compassionate, welcoming and safe.
You found just the right words here Gracie. Kudos to you for letting us all know what you were feeling about this issue.
ME+WE
09/23/18
thank you both me+we and astrie for your kind comments…
it definitely has been a huge step to post… i have read a lot though of the articles, and responses… and have seen the safety here…
i too have witnessed and been a part of another type of abuse survivors forum and have seen the damage that can be done by those that enter a site and aren’t safe people- even though it starts out seemingly ‘normal’
or even just how with things being said in real time and group members leaving over not feeling heard or respected… having moderators taking sides, and possibly causing more distress…
those experiences makes me quite cautious about posting… also just knowing i don’t always process the intended meaning behind articles or posts- or at least some of us don’t…
so also have to add in, i don’t do well at talking about the ‘us’ piece… it’s still very new… and only a couple of my counselors are able to see the ‘us-ness’…
so typing it out – and acknowledging without clear understanding of still super scary…
so again ~ thanks…
~gracie
9.28.18
Good job speaking up Gracie! Yeah you ha ve to pay for BOTH forums. The only free thing now is these comments here directly on the blog 🙂
Hi Gracie,
I really admire your courage in expressing your feelings and concerns.
Thank you Kathy 😊
You’re very welcome, 🙂
Glad you are finding comfort and safety here!
Thanks for posting, and please keep reading. 🙂
Warmly,
Kathy