There are distinct differences between Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) and Borderline Personality Disorder (DID). There are many overlapping symptoms, and some therapists believe that all trauma survivors with DID are also BPD.
I, however, do not hold that perspective.
In my opinion, not all trauma survivors with DID are BPD. However, I will guess that the greater portion of DID’ers are also borderline. This makes the discussion of borderline behaviors an important topic for dissociative trauma survivors.
Borderline survivors are frequently characterized with:
- black and white thinking
- self-injury
- impulsive behaviors
- repeated crises
- intense abandonment issues
- suicidal behaviors
- inappropriate anger
- mood instability
- irritability
- paranoid thinking
- an unstable self image
There are a wide variety of BPD behaviors that could be discussed over a series of posts. I’ll save those topics for another day.
For this blog post, I want to focus on a particular aspect of BPD: having a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. (see the DSM IV).
Unstable and intense relationships.
People with borderline personality disorder may idealize potential caregivers or lovers [or therapists] at the first or second meeting, demand to spend a lot of time together, and share the most intimate details early in a relationship. However, they may switch quickly from idealizing other people to devaluing them, feeling that the other person does not care enough, does not give enough, is not “there” enough. These individuals can empathize with and nurture other people, but only with the expectation that the other person will “be there” in return to meet their own needs on demand. These individuals are prone to sudden and dramatic shifts in their view of others, who may alternately be seen as beneficent supports or as cruelly punitive. Such shifts often reflect disillusionment with a caregiver whose nurturing qualities had been idealized or whose rejection or abandonment is expected.
http://psychcentral.com/lib/2007/symptoms-of-borderline-personality-disorder
Okay, that’s a lot of psychobabble talk, so what does that mean?
This is when the BPD survivor alternates between thinking someone is wonderful – excellent – the very best, and then thinking that very same person is horrific – awful – horrible.
The BPD survivor will show or feel excessive attachment to a new person, and in a sense fall madly in love with this person. They put this new person on a pedestal, believing the person to be more incredibly perfect and wonderful than they could possibly be in real life, and they crave constant attention and special recognition from their new Perfect Person. (But don’t ask the BPD survivor to admit that. All too many BPD survivors deny their craving for more, more, more.)
But of course, no one can stay “perfect” for long.
The Perfect Person will inevitably do something that just doesn’t measure up.
Typically, the “errors” created by the Perfect Person are that they did not consistently provide the BPD survivor with enough individual attention, or with specialized attention, or with quick enough responses. Or the Perfect Person will inevitably do something wrong or something that hurts the feelings of the BPD person. Versions of these issues are nearly always the fatal crime.
The problem is this — The Perfect Person is not perfect.
They are not at all perfect, they simply will not measure up. They cannot do enough, and they cannot respond perfectly correctly. They will fail, inevitably, and without doubt.
So, before they know it, the Perfect Person will suddenly become the hated target.
Unfortunately, when BPD survivors swing from the feelings of intense positive adoration to the angry hateful place, they are all too often, willing to, and actually desirous of, utterly destroying the same person they once loved.
Does anyone remember the movie, Fatal Attraction? That movie portrays a Hollywood version of the love-hate relationship experienced by borderlines. Hollywood was extreme in their portrayal, of course, but the love-hate flip-flop is easily seen.
For trauma survivors with both BPD and DID, the love-hate flip-flop can happen quickly and easily.
Remember, as DID survivors, these folks are very used to switching and to containing opposite life perspectives in opposite extremes.
When the dissociative BPD feels abandoned by their treasured “good object” and becomes upset with them, the flip into hatred might not be that far away.
The abandonment can be experienced in any number of ways.
Being very sensitive to any rejection of intense connection they desire, simple things can be interpreted as huge emotional offences.
For example, if the once Perfect Person sets limits by saying “no” to a specific request, or by not offering extra time, or by going away themselves. Even if the reasons for being away are valid, no reason is good enough – every reason still means they are left behind, and ultimately, that is not acceptable.
Jealousy is frequently an intense motivator too.
When BPD survivors want a cherished relationship with their new Perfect Person, they have all kinds of jealous pangs if they believe someone else has a more treasured place than they do. Instead of doing the work it takes to keep their own relationships in a positive place, they focus outwardly on relationships that belong to others, drowning in their jealousy and anger, and inevitably destroying the relationships they wanted to cherish.
For dissociative trauma survivors, the therapeutic relationship is an incredibly important relationship.
Developing and protecting this relationship is both central and crucial to the entire healing process.
DID’ers can spend years of time with their therapist, and cultivating the skills to keep this relationship in a workable, positive place is critical.
For BPD survivors, the therapeutic relationship is equally important. However, these survivors often lack the skills needed to maintain positive long-term relationships, even with therapists. Therapists very frequently become the target of the love-hate flip-flop dynamic. Many therapists refuse to work with clients with BPD precisely because of this dynamic.
This love-hate borderline behavioral pattern should help to explain how any therapist can be the most dearest of therapists, and then a short time later, be the most hated.
This love-hate behavioral pattern is a symptom of BPD. It doesn’t mean that the therapist is actually wonderful or horrible. It just means BPD survivor is acting out the black-white, love-hate, attachment-abandonment issue that is central to BPD.
When you know to look for it, you’ll see it happening all over the place in the trauma survivor population.
So when you hear someone attempting to destroy or bad-mouth someone else, consider the bigger clinical context of what this kind of behavior is about.
And please — work very hard to NOT do this to your therapist.
Your therapist will not likely become your worst enemy unless you make that happen.
Instead of destroying your cherished relationships, it is much better to protect them with all that you have.
Don’t believe lies. Don’t tell yourself lies.
Remember who your therapist is and do not confuse your therapist with any other person (mother, father, perpetrator, etc).
The disordered dynamics related to BPD are a complication, but they do not have to become an insuperable obstacle.
You really can choose not to let these dynamics dominate your relationships, with your therapist or anyone else.
Protect your relationship with your therapist. Build a relationship with mutual patience, forgiveness, grace, and gentleness.
I wish you the best in your healing journey.
Warmly,
Kathy
Copyright © 2008-2018 Kathy Broady MSW and Discussing Dissociation
I often wonder if I can ever have a healthy relationship. I more often angry and unhappy than not. Suggested diagnosis of bpd among many. Spent about 2 years in angry parts nearly causing a divorce. Seem to still be triggered by men and loud noises. Moving and a new job are causing more parts to come out. Some that forget where we are and what we are doing. Driving is still scary. Forcing herself to drive even though she hates it. Still reactive, needy, codependent in many ways. Currently seperated from most family members. Can’t seem to keep people happy. Sometimes wonder if avoiding people altogether is safer than being hurt all over again. Currently without insurance and a therapist. Employed but only part time. Barely hanging onto marriage and kids. Playing nice so we can have what we need.
Oh my but that sounds like a slippery tightrope you are walking on there Dk! I am struck by your statement: Can’t seem to keep people happy. I am wondering if that is the nugget of understanding here and why you are angry and unhappy? It sure makes me angry and unhappy to always be trying to make others happy. Sure have been there … okay, my one insider is totally there still.
For me, I think that it is difficult for me to have a healthy relationship with others when I do not have a healthy relationship with myself. That is why I do my system work, why I work to understand my insider’s needs, their stories, their triggers and to hear their voices. When I don’t do that work. I fall into deep depression and I do not want the world to come in at all … even those folks in my life who I am closely bonded with (like my husband of 42 years). I am just … stay away world … catatonically depressed and feeling helpless. Honestly, sometimes my work puts me there too because it is too much to take in but I usually am able to work through that and find greater positive relief for having done so.
Gosh, I really am sorry that you do not have a therapist right now. That sure does make your work a lot harder I fell. Maybe down the road you can save up a little money and do a consultation with Kathy or Laura. It is not like regular, weekly therapy but they sure can help you with questions and insights to help you get on track.
Oh, and you can talk here as well. There is always someone here to listen and offer their experience.
ME+WE
08/21/21
Thank you. Sometimes l feel scared and I feel I can’t relate to people very well. I have known l was different for a long time. Just wish more people understood mental illness and all that means. This is pretty hard. Internal system chaos. Chatter inside.
Hi Dk,
My apologies for my late reply. I have been away for four weeks.
Gosh, I am so sorry that you are feeling scared. It really is impossible to describe to a singleton what the head chaos feels like and how it keeps you out-of-balance and there-but-not-there. It is like knowing and hearing the world around you but not being able to connect fully because there is this inner world that is demanding your attention as well.
Well, that is what it feels like to me anyway. I think that sometimes folks think that I am not paying attention or do not care when inside I am scrambling to just keep myself from screaming out loud. As I have done my system work. some of the inside chatter has settled down at times and that has been a great relief. But, out-of-the-blue something will trigger me and the chatter starts.
I sure do wish people understood more about mental illness and what it is like to deal with it. I often wish there was a virtual reality program where you can plug singletons into a hologram with visual, audio and sensory stimulation that simulates what we feel 24/7. I think that most singletons would not last an hour in our world!
We are here to listed Dk. You are not alone!
Sending positive thoughts and wishes your way.
ME+WE
9/18/21
Kathy, i am curious, are people BORN with borderline traits? Do they develop after abuse or something?
Can people overcome it? Our old best friend, the one who was borderline, she was so nice to us, then stabbed us in the back and did several things that hurt enormously. I wonder if she still does that to people. She is probably in her late 30’s by now, and i wonder if she is still like this. Do people get better with therapy? She was horrible to her therapist, also, and she was so manipulative. Can she recover from that?
Caroline
this reminds me of stupid ex best friend. when she desided she didnt like us no more she got really mean and said all sorts of bad things about us to other people. but once when we saw her in a office with her new best friend she saw us, and she started crying and ran out with the other person, telling them all the horrible stuff we did to her. but i dont think we did anything. she wouldnt talk to us ever to let us know what happend.
This article is making me go “Ouch”….not sure where I am….In the early 90’s after bottoming out and leaving my ex (who was actually emotionally abusive but I didn’t know it)…I ended up hospitalized (at a policeman’s strong suggestion) when I went in search of the man who had raped me 19 years earlier…”needed closure”…..I remember very little of my hospital time except….
(1.) telling my psychiatrist my father always told my mother to “Shut up”….
(2.) my psychiatrist told me I had “married” my much older husband because I was trying to “fix my relationship with my father” (but I later found out I wasn’t actually married to him – he had “head-gamed” me….)
(3.) We as a group went and saw “Fried Green Tomatoes” (which I can’t remember any of)…don’t know why THAT flashback sticks with me so much…….
(4.) I fell apart when they asked me to draw a male and female head – I couldn’t do it – they both looked exactly alike and it freaked me out because I had NO sense of distinction between male and female…(both turned out looking like a “Halloween” witch’s head)…….
It wasn’t until years later when I went to get insurance through my job and they almost denied me – that I found out I was “BPD with suicidal tendencies”……(don’t know how they came up with that when my whole stay there is mostly a blur)
OK – I know I had the “impulse” thing going on…..My current T has said she doesn’t think I am BPD, but does see DID….definite parts…..but I do see the tendency in me to suddenly “shut down” on someone and want nothing more to do with them…usually it is after extended times of a “part” (Rage) “watching” them “head-gaming” me…..but I am thinking the shift may be connected to a “part” since those times I “feel” very different and can barely “remember” the trust that I did have in them…..
I definitely don’t like the “feel” of the “love” switching to “hate” – there is the initial perspective that they are a “safe” person (actually above average)….then Rage (who has been “watching”) starts bubbling (for unknown reasons), then there is a season of massive confusion and bouncing back and forth (which makes me feel like I am losing my mind)…..then, finally Rage kicks the perspective over to the “hate” realm and all sense of “trust” is lost….all of my Insides cannot bear to be around someone I don’t trust……
Maybe that is the same process that “normal” people use….I don’t know….but somehow with me it feels like each perspective is so distinct (i.e – there is no “blending”)….it is the “black and white” aspect……the confusion and bouncing back and forth part is the WORST – but still, each “bounce” is very distinct…at least with the all “black” or all “white” mode I have some kind of sense of a direction I am “supposed” to be feeling……
I don’t think I have gone in that direction with my T…(I hope I don’t)…..although at times I have felt a “wave crawling up” that was pushing me to just get up and walk out of there and never go back – and I couldn’t have told you the “why” of it….maybe that was a “part” and not part of BPD…….
Maybe I AM “normal” and just don’t know it…..!!
MissyMing
02/12/19
** trigger warning **
When my CPN was moving away, he knew i wouldnt cope, so he came to my home. I put the kettle on, and it took every ounce of strength for parts of me to stop others from locking him in and st*bbing him. He never knew. When he left i cried for 6 hours, i still wonder where he is. That was 21 years ago. Every time i hear the michael bolton song “how can i live without you?”, all i can do is think of him
Internet nowadays you can uncover any corpse… twitter found my old elementary school. i then precisely remembered my 2nd grade photo there, down to the uniform and what i looked like. I was a good kid, but I lost her a long time ago to unscrupulous people and now Im some sociopathic-like loner hooker person. Thing is I dont want to change. Im very strong willed, confident, independent. Hard to change my mind on anything. Stubborn. I also believe relationships are overrated. Men will say anything to get laid. they also cheat. “friends” are there during good times but bad? very very few. i will not change myself for such a piss poor idea of love and “friendship” most ppl have. Just a bunch of male sl*ts and fair weather fairies. Still, I wonder who I would have been if life hadnt beaten me so much. I plan to be a loner escort hooker til i get old or sick n then get put to sleep overseas where they allow elected suicide. Til then I enjoy food, liquors, shops, music, dance, etc. Ppl ask why im single i said Id kill him if i had a boyfriend. they think im joking but i am not😁😁
Hey there,
Not sure if I should have been diagnoed with BPD anyway. I do have intense abandonment an drejection issues, but one the Perfect Person has given me some inkling for me to percieve that they don’t like me or don’t want to be around me or if it just turns the other way, I don’t hate them. I don’t hate anybody, really. I try to give them a choice, I think. I only want them to stay if they want to stay, but darn I really want them to stay and it will destroy me if they don’t. So I start giving them things like “I understand if you don’t want to talk to me anymore,” “it’s okay if you wnat to leave, I know I’m a lot to handle,” that kind of thing. I do, however, give give give so much of myself in an effort to get them to stay.
So that’s where I get confused about my BPD diagnosis. I was also, later, diagnosed with some type of DD, for context.
Thoughts?
Lanie
Complex PTSD?
I havent read all the comments I’m afraid – not enough concentration, but I just read the last post and I wanted to say I do the splitting thing and it is overpowering sometimes (and chronic in the past). BUT I have DID and the splitting thing is only in very young parts. So although I was once diagnosed BPD I think that’s wrong because my adult parts are not black and white. I acted it out a LOT in the past until I found little parts hiding in there. Now I can usually know whats happening and look after littles a bit myself so less fall out on husband and therapist. I have a long way to go, still finding traumatised parts but that’s how I find it and just thought I’d add my comment. Thanks for your articles they are lots of help.
I’m kind of late to this thread, but what the heck, I guess I’ll post and talk about myself a bit. I’m 34 years old and married for the first time last year in the year 2015. I’m also currently in my final semester of law school. Phewwwww!!!! For me, personally, this is a mouthful.
On this night, I googled “BPD survivor” and found this link. I guess, in a sense, though I do consider myself a perpetual BPD survivor on a daily basis, I will share a bit about my survival with BPD since I was first diagnosed with it in late 2009 at the age of 28, which is a little over 6 years ago by this point in time.
I was sent to dialectical behavioral therapy upon diagnosis and completed two out of four of the modules in 2010. I couldn’t finish the other two due to changes in health insurance. (anyways, long story on that one)
To this day, I am practicing and emphasizing, every second of every moment of every hour of every day, how important it is to be in the present and to accept myself and my situation as it is in the present. Believe me, this has been a process. The hardest part that I honestly had to overcome, was accepting myself as I am in the present. Coming to law school, finding my significant other, marrying, dealing with the immediate family drama opened my eyes to so many things:
1) I was not allowed to love myself or to have peace.
2) I did not believe I deserve happiness.
I sought out situations that confirmed my internal reality. Now, I have let everyone around me know that I need to be accepted as I am and that I don’t care to be prettier, smarter, or any more or less of anything other than what I am.
This is an ongoing process for me and it is actually working.
I forgot to say, my wife once I was under the anti-depressants and her control, then worked to convince me I had D.I.D, she started slow, recalling previous days events, but different to how they actually happened.
Then denying conversations happened. Or ideas were hers, not mine, but if it went wrong, then it was mine again and we never argued over who’s idea it was.
You never truly know someone.
That sounds like a truly horrible situation you’ve been through. I’ve been gaslighted and manipulated many times, but never by a partner. I’m so sorry your ex took your child away from you. I’m not sure when you posted your comment, but I hope you and your son have been reunited since. I truly hope that you were granted full custody, because your wife does not sound like she’s capable of raising him right now
Wishing you the very best in life, after all the suffering you’ve had to endure xx
Wow Kathy,
My blog is down at the moment, but after reading this, I know now it explains all the years of ups and downs from my wife, her depression, and the ultimate split with her running off with our two year old son.
Our last conversation was me saying that when we got home from my Mothers funeral, we were over, it was Divorce. She had been in a slum for 15 years, in and out of therapy, never dealt with Childhood issues, but she held on to being bullied as a child.
Then after the birth of our son two and a half years ago she slid deeper, mood swings, temper, anger, rage. I was terrified of my wife.
I pleaded with her to get help, go to our GP, but her response was always “I don’t want to be branded a bad mother”. She eventually went to private therapy for a couple of months. After the first 50 minute session came home “I do not have post natal depression, I am only slightly depressed”.
A week later and ever since has denied saying it.
After a year of this, I started having nightmares, they were not clear, but they were me and another teen.
My wife eventually convinced me her therapist thought I was the one with depression, so to show there was no shame, I went to my GP, and straight away without any diagnosis put me on anti-depressants. Reviewed every two weeks. I had my wife constantly “they are not working”, so each review the dose was increased. Until I was on 200mg of Sertraline daily. Plus tamazapam to sleep through the nightmares.
The stronger the anti-depressants, the stronger the nightmares, until I was having flashbacks.
My wife could not take it, I found a forum post from September last year in her internet history “He thinks its all about him, I am tempted to grab our son and run”.
Then came my mothers funeral, in Feb. We had to drive 600 miles with ferry. So we left our son with my wifes sister.
The entire journey she had panic attacks after panic attacks. And the length of the wake, she kept running out in tears, running down the street. I had to keep going after her.
Each time taking her somewhere we could talk so I could calm her, and each time “your step family are cutting you out of the funeral”, and various other hurtful things.
But I was completely under her control. And the funeral was horrible. I did not feel I got a chance to say good bye to my mother.
My wife was pushing me to the edge, she exploded at me after the funeral, screaming at me that I was angry. So I left and walked around the town, cleared my head. Calmed down a bit.
Then she came to me, and started again, I told her to go away, she was the angry one, so she called the police. Gave them the “under the care of mental health, on anti-depressants, near a river, danger to himself.”
Next thing I know, four police officers turn up, wanting to take me away. I am trying to explain, but they just want me in the back of their car.
They drove me back to my sisters, and handed me over to my wife. We left the town to stay in a hotel, get some sleep. All my wife kept asking me was “do you still love me?”
I would not answer, I just said to her “that was the biggest act of betrayal you could ever have done”.
We checked in, I told her to get sleep, she was driving in the morning, I had work to catch up on, and I was going to have a couple of drinks in the hotel bar to toast my mum on her way.
When I came back to the hotel room, she woke, and started again. So I left the room, grabbed my ipad and went to the car. But she followed, “do you still love me”… it went on for hours before I finally gave in, told her I would rather have it at home, instead of before a 600 mile journey, but no, I could never forgive her for what she did, and I can no longer live in fear, her anger and rage was out of control, and she had become lazy. The last time I seen her get up and get dressed was 2007, she lives in her night clothes. The house is a mess, she hordes. She hasn’t worked in 15 years. And there was nothing left to love, as there was none in return. She had become abusive to me, so when we get home it is Divorce.
She erupted, screaming, shouting, she kept getting out of the car, back in, then she said “give me the keys, I am going home, you can do what you want, give me the keys or I am phoning the police”.
Here we go again, she got out of the car, so I drove it away from the hotel and hid it, went to a pay phone and called the police. I had lost my phone!
Eventually when I got back to the hotel, I found she had checked out, taken my wallet, ID, bank cards, cash, cleared our bank accounts and ran. She left me with £1.60.
By the time I got home (4 days later) she had taken our son, ran to a refuge, and is now claiming I am the abusive partner, addicted to drugs and alcohol, and to stop me seeing my son – claims I sexually abused him.
None of her claims are true, now going through family court, but it has been almost seven months since I have seen my boy.
We are now both to be assessed by a Psychiatrist privately, and I am placing all my hope that this guy knows what he is doing.
I worry for my wife and son, I worry there is much more to her childhood than she is willing to deal with. I dealt with mine, and still see my therapist regularly when needed. But when I came off the anti-depressants, all my memories returned, including my time with a very good psychiatrist, at the age of 19.
Your blog is amazing, and very helpful, keep up the good work!.
“Instead of destroying your cherished relationships, it is much better to protect them with all that you have. Don’t believe lies. Don’t tell yourself lies. Remember who your therapist is and do not confuse your therapist with any other person (mother, father, perpetrator, etc). … – you really can choose not to let these dynamics dominate your relationships, with your therapist or anyone else.”
Really! Do you think that it never occurred to BPD survivors that it is better to protect their cherished relationships than to destroy them? This is not about telling yourself lies. It is a bit more complicated than that. I believe that your advice is well-meant. But to me it reveals that you don’t really know what you are talking about.
I know survivors of DID or MPD and they did not have any such disorder as BPD. Therapist and DSM manuals can be wrong, and they all make mistakes too and there is proof of this. It is important to properly diagnose someone to help them, if you don’t, they keep suffering so get the record straight, MPD/DID do not have BPD.
“And please – work very hard to NOT do this to your therapist. Your therapist will not likely become your worst enemy unless you make that happen. Instead of destroying your cherished relationships, it is much better to protect them with all that you have. Don’t believe lies. Don’t tell yourself lies. Remember who your therapist is and do not confuse your therapist with any other person (mother, father, perpetrator, etc). The disordered dynamics related to BPD are a complication, but they do not have to become an insuperable obstacle — you really can choose not to let these dynamics dominate your relationships, with your therapist or anyone else.”
Aw, so cute how therapists think they can reason with sociopaths.
I have yet to see a single documented case of a borderline being successfully rehabilitated. That’s probably because one has yet to exist.
I find myself disliking the diagnosis of BPD. I sought high and low to find someone who finally listened to the fact that I heard voices and that those voices weren’t some part of a lie in order to gain some attention. That person finally gave me the DX of DID.
I am not going to sit here ant type to you that it was all well and fine either. I struggled a great deal with the DX. I finally came to terms with it and wanted to learn more about my insiders.
I find myself now with a therapist who states I have BPD characteristics. I have to be honest in saying that makes me quite angry. I don’t know why this holds such a negative aspect for me… but it does.
I do know that when I saw a therapist when I was younger… I was DX with borderline. I thought at the time that therapist understood about the others, ect. Come to find out later.. that isn’t what bordeline meant. I thought that borderline meant a state between personalities. Well.. that fit.. sort of.
Now, one of my insiders states being borderline.
I really don’t understand it all… and maybe should read more about it. Just seems that when I read it.. I find out that I am not this or that.
The last comment, however, really struck me.. Kathy. I think I do this to my therapist. I don’t want to… but I do. I wish I knew how to quit. Can you tell me how to do that? I want to develop a working relationship with my therapist. Seems lately.. I … or my insiders have been working hard at destroying it. How can I stop this?????
Worried.
“When I read your posts about BPD I get the feeling you really do not like BPD people – like maybe we are doing it on purpose or intentionally or whatever.”
I kind of get that sense, too. I really enjoy this blog, but your tone with regards to BPD-ers sounds exasperated and a bit like scolding. Here are some things that sound harsh to me:
“Instead of doing the work it takes to keep their own relationships in a positive place,…”
– Most of the BPD people I know and work with actually put a lot of energy into their own relationships; they are also crippled by issues that prevent this energy from blooming.
“This love-hate borderline behavioral pattern should help to explain how any therapist can be the most dearest of therapists, and then a short time later, be the most hated. It’s a behavioral symptom of BPD. It doesn’t mean that the therapist is actually wonderful or horrible.”
– Actually, it doesn’t ***necessarily*** mean the therapist is actually wonderful or horrible. As a personal survivor of therapist sexual abuse, I cannot overestimate the importance of respectfully (and clearly) communicating distress and discomfort that arises within the therapeutic relationship, to both the therapist and then well-chosen outside observers. Not every therapist has their client’s best interests at heart.
And finally, “you really can choose not to let these dynamics dominate your relationships, with your therapist or anyone else.”
– Does a choice count as a choice if you don’t know any other way of behaving? I think most people with BPD would happily choose another way of being if they could — if they knew how, if they had support in doing so, if they had enough ‘space’ from their issues to get the mental capability of choice, etc.
Okay this is the article with the info. I was looking for earlier in the day. I feel like I am writing way too much but sometimes I get so upset (YES I AM BPD – I don’t like it and hate it and hate me for being it) that I have to focus myself on one task in order to stay out of trouble. This may be my task for the next few days.
I agree with everything you said here, Kathy. I know I am BPD and I don’t want to be. I don’t like it. I hate it but I am working on it – sometimes better than others. When I read your posts about BPD I get the feeling you really do not like BPD people – like maybe we are doing it on purpose or intentionally or whatever. I feel really bad inside that other people do not like BPD people. It hits rock bottom hard inside my stomach. Because you don’t like ME because I am BPD. Someone above mentioned she quit being the friend of someone who was BPD. I feel really sad about that. I have only known I am BPD for 10 months or so. I had no idea I was BPD. I know I am reckless, careless, spontaneous, etc. Originally before we knew we were also DID (BPD came first then DID) all of us in this system had names based upon our “job” in the system. My name has always been IDC. When things get really bad for the insiders I come out to live life because I Don’t Care (hence the IDC) about anything. I can take it. Give it me. You cannot get through me. I am the WALL. No one gets in. No one gets to the little ones inside who are hurting.
My therapist and I agreed on a name change and role adjustment so I chose the name Haley after Haley’s Comet. When I am out (which is a lot more than in the past) I get so mad at times I feel like I am cometing into the wild blue yonder. But I am working to handle things differently.
I hope maybe this will help others understand BPD people a little better and maybe have a little heart for us. For our system it is about protection – being safe.
Kathy, you explained at all very well based on what I know about myself. I have it all: the jealousy, abandonment (when therapist makes me leave it is instant abandonment), love-hate, etc. The one thing I did not notice you mention was the boredom factor. I run at such a high level of energy (mentally) I get bored very easily. I just cannot find anything to engage my mind.
In our system to this date 3 of us are DID and BPD. The remaining 12 or so are NOT BPD so within one body you can be BPD and not BPD.
I wish people would like us. And I hope that if anything comes from this post it will be that people understand that it is not a purposeful action to that we are this way. Behind the BPD “label” are a bunch of hurting people trying to hang onto something or someone for dear life. Because if we don’t have someone to hang onto we get sucked back under to the trauma we are trying to flee.
HaleyC
I used to have a best friend who is borderline. As much as I loved her, she wore me out. It was hard to keep up with which “side” I was currently on, as well as the rest of the world. I’d try to support her, but I couldn’t keep track of who was on her “Good list” and who was currently on her “Bad list”.
ALL people have good & not so good aspects of themselves. With a few exceptions, I don’t think anyone is all good or all bad. There isn’t a black and white issue about people.
Even with my old therapist, who dumped us and hurt us really badly– she is still a good person, even though she probably hurt us worse than anyone else ever did. But that doesn’t make her a bad person. She just happened to do something immensely thoughtless and cruel. But we still love her, and she still did a lot of good things with us in 7 years of therapy. That doesn’t make HER bad though. She’s someone good, who did a super mean thing.
“They are displacing their huge issues onto the therapist, and forgetting about what is going on underneath….. (the mother issues, the abandonment feelings…”
Your reflections on the need for survivors to take control of their transference issues is so right on! My first therapist and I worked for years on my issues with my mother, and lots of transference, before I could even begin to address my issues of abuse by a priest.
What about counter transference too ?, the theraputic relationship is so complex. There is an interesting article/study in the latest ISStd journal. The study was looking at BPD and comorbidity with dissociative disorders in general not just DID. It was very interesting. The study was excellent and was done in a extremly rigorous way. The results show that many BPD patients do have dissociative disorders also. I am with you Kathy in that although many DIDers have symptoms of BPD not all meet the diagnostic criteria to be considered BPD and vice versa.
Hi morunner,
Oh yes, the therapeutic relationship is so very very complex….!!! There are just so many different layers to it, and a ton of different things that can happen during the course of time in a therapeutic relationship…. It’s hard to put it all into words, isn’t it?!!
And yes, countertransference is another very real dynamic that factors into therapeutic relationships on a relatively regular basis. I think it would take a whole blog post — or more — to talk about that!
Thanks for mentioning the ISSTD journal article – I haven’t looked at it yet, but that does sound very interesting. Has anyone else seen that article?
Thanks for the comment — and thanks for reading,
Kathy
I am wondering if you recognize BPD behaviors in yourself and
dont act on them….recognize them, acknowledge them and deal
with them….does that make you borderline?
Or is acting on those thoughts and feelings, the making of BPD?
H
Hey juliewtf,
It’s always nice to get comments from you. I look forward to seeing what you are going to say when I post, and thanks, because you do brighten my day with the things you write. 🙂
Ok – to answer your questions, briefly…. (because to really answer them is a whole big post in itself)….
I think that one of the biggest issues about the BPD behaviors is not letting them take over your life. Having the thoughts, feeling the feelings, is actually pretty normal, (especially coming from the trauma survivor point of view in life), and it’s not necessarily something that can be immediately prevented. And just having the thoughts and feelings doesn’t necessarily mean something “bad” anyway because … trust issues have to be addressed…. self-injury issues have to be addressed…. fear of others has to be addressed…. abandonment issues have to be addressed, etc. There is such an overlap in the way trauma affects a person, that of course, so many of the BPD-type issues are going to naturally surface, at least in a survivor’s thoughts.
So, having the thoughts and feelings is not so much the problem as is the allowing the thoughts and feelings to blow up into a huge mushroom of a mess, and then acting on them without really understanding what they are about in the first place. So it’s the damaging explosion of uncontrolled and excessive behaviors that becomes the diagnosable issue… not just having the thoughts in the first place.
If you have the self-control and the wherewithal to check further before you act, then you are doing what the DBT therapy teaches BPD people in the first place — to put more time in between having the feelings and acting out a huge response.
Good question. I’ll think more about that, and hopefully, I’ll be able to address more of that in my future posts about this topic.
Good to see you here. 🙂
Kathy
I find it so hard to trust myself and my instincts Kathy. We learned from an early age that our own instincts were often incorrect or ignored. It’s hard to move on from this position to a point where you can instinctively trust that voice inside saying “that person is lying”. Quite often that instinct is there, but it gets clouded in amongst all the other layers of messages and confusion.
It’s also possible to try to protect a therapeutic relationship that is negative instead of positive. My previous therapist was a lovely person, but she wasn’t able to help me with the dissociative issues I was facing. I don’t blame her for not having the skills, but I do regret that she only showed signs of wanting to learn more after I had ended therapy with her.
I wonder how you can tell when we are telling ourselves lies, as opposed to seeing reality from a different point of view. Every person will see a situation from a different viewpoint. Each of those views is a truth as they see it, so at what point does it become a lie? Is it about motivation? Dysfunctional thinking?
Interesting post…
Take care,
castorgirl
Castorgirl,
Thanks for the comment. I was thinking about following up this post with a more detailed post about what I mean by “protecting your therapeutic relationship”. And yes, of course, that is completely different from the idea of moving on from a therapist that genuinely isn’t able to help. Already, what you are saying is protective of her, for example, because you can still see her as a lovely person – just not trained in the areas you needed specialized work. No one is “bad” just because they are not trained in a specific area — that just means they are trained in other areas that are more fitting for other people.
The surrounding / underlying issues in this particular topic blog are really very big, and will need definitely need expanding, so yes… I am sure that I will continue to write about them, one blog at a time. Heavens, I could probably write an entire book about this topic, lol. Plus, you’ve brought up some very good points. So yes, I will continue to address things, such as the questions about telling yourself lies, how to trust yourself (or not), etc.
I’m hoping to have more time to write in the blog again, so… keeping my fingers crossed, I’ll get a lot more stuff up here about all this soon. 🙂
Thanks again for commenting. I appreciate hearing from you.
Warmly,
Kathy
This article and followup comments are timely for us. My therapist suddenly dumped me several months ago. However, she continued to stay in touch bc she realized how harmful that had been. I told her that, even though she had broken trust with me, that I will never hurt her in return, because I don’t want to be a vengeful person. She recently admitted that her supervisor had ordered her to cut me off abruptly that very day, bc she had never worked with DID before. She is now a valuable source of phone support for us, and someone I care about deeply. She too is a lovely person. I love her really, and I’m so glad I didn’t have to lose the relationship even though it had to change.
One of the worst things was the breaking of the transference. I am still grieving that. Even at its best, transference is so painful that I wish I could avoid it forever.
And yes, we recognize ourselves in that list, but we fight it because it would be a bottomless pit of misery and destruction if we gave in to it. Why add to the pain we already have to cope with??
RainSinger people
7/19/20
Luckily I haven’t wrecked my relationship with my T even though there are times we want to just run….We read this article and again we feel like we must have BPD stuff…yet T says we are not….If someone does something there is a GREAT need in us to know WHY….if people would only explain what is going on – to be upfront and HONEST – then it would help calm the panic and help us to know where we are at…..but Outsiders don’t understand when we say “I need to know where I am at”…..We gotta come up with a different phrase – but haven’t found the right one yet….Evidently some of our stuff (whatever it is) must involve a great deal of “deception” – and the fear of it (or “wondering”) seems to taint everything in our life…..
We are so sensitive to “undercurrents” and we can’t figure out if we are imagining stuff or not….Someone further down said that the great focus is to find a way to feel “safe”….that is a BIGGIE for us…..It is so hard to find someone who “gets” your struggle…we try to find someone and we just end up looking “paranoid”….nobody gets what we are doing and we just get deeper into a big mess of Outsiders not understanding – but you can’t explain any more without becoming WAY too vulnerable to people you are not sure about…..trust is hard for us – but we keep blundering ahead…..
We hate it when we feel so many “behind the scene” undercurrents….We so need to know what is going on but people just look at us like something is wrong with us and they put up walls or even literally back away…..It makes me want to just fall in the floor and cry…but we don’t do that on the Outside….wish we had the nerve to just get it over with and completely collapse…then maybe we won’t have to deal with people anymore…..
The more we keep trying to look “normal” – the less we feel it…..we are stifling the cries from Inside for “info”…..to know what is going on so we can try to “feel” “safe”…….j
Maybe we ARE BPD and T just doesn’t know it yet…….
MissyMing
07/22/20
Fascinating. I have some of the characteristics above but contained in different parts – most in evidence is b&w thinking. I don’t idealise people though.. I think I have long-since given up even trying to imagine anyone could be anything other than unreliable and fundamentally flawed.
Here’s a question – although obviously one should treat T with appropriate respect and not verbally abuse, dismiss and so forth, when you say “Remember who your therapist is and do not confuse your therapist with any other person” – surely that’s like saying ‘don’t let the transference develop’ ? – could you clarify?
thanks!
WG
ooops — Wounded Genius —
sorry, I didn’t see your comment earlier. I’ve got it in here now, so… better late than never.
And thanks for posting. And you’ve asked more good questions… 🙂
OH gosh… yes, the transference issue is a great big huge thing. Quick answer to that (because like the others, this whole area needs a lot of room to expand in more posts…) I think the important thing to remember is that there IS a thing called transference, and there IS a thing called projection, and there IS a thing called displacement, and there ARE other emotional reasons why one would perceive their therapist in complicated ways.
Your therapist is going to remember that transference, projection, and displacement are going to happen in the therapy work, and we are not only prepared for that, but we are expecting it. It does happen, it will happen, it’s bound to happen. And preventing it from happening, is not so easily done, and really not necessary. So my point is to not say that transference, etc can’t happen, but to remember that it DOES happen. And to be very very honest about that, so that there are less mix-up’s for who the actual therapist is as a person, vs. who they are reminding you of at this point in time.
It’s ok to say, “gosh, I am really working thru’ some transference issues about my mother with my therapist.” That is part of the healing process. We as therapists are ready, able, willing to do that. It’s ok.
But when the survivor person forgets that so much of what they are feeling is transference, and they attack at the therapist, or cause harm to the therapist…. then that survivor person is really off-base, and not working on their issues. They are displacing their huge issues onto the therapist, and forgetting about what is going on underneath….. (the mother issues, the abandonment feelings, the hurt from not feeling special, the desire to truly want to be with the therapist / mother, etc.)
The point being — use the transference that surfaces for your own healing. It’s going to happen, but keep the focus on where it came from, and don’t make the mistake of exploding it further onto the therapist when the depth of the issue really belongs elsewhere. If people incorrectly attack and blame the therapist, they are just hurting people (including themselves), and not working on healing their own stuff.
I’ll be writing more about all this as well. Thanks for the question — and yes, there is a whole lot more I can say about that topic.
Thanks for commenting!
Kathy
Hi Petrogenic,
Thank you for reading the Discussing Dissociation blog. It’s nice to see that people take my posts, and really think about them. 🙂 I think it is a real honor when folks link my blog to their blog, and talk more about the kinds of things that my posts mean to them. That’s good — I’m glad to see people thinking! 🙂
You’ve brought up a good question in your blog – about the similarities/differences between DID and BPD – and while I’ve discussed that in my support group, SurvivorForum, I haven’t mentioned that here. Maybe I can expand further on those ideas here in this blog as well.
Thanks again for reading, and I look forward to hearing from you at any time.
Kathy
Kathy,
is it possible to have a BPD Alter(s)? Geesh I am struggling with this right now. After over a decade with my current Therapist one of my alters showed up in a session and Terminated therapy on the spot. I am retreiving some memory from session, that my Therapist actually cried, I think, for me? I feel so bad. “I” must have been ruthless. I am way too ashamed to ask my Therapist to take me back. I can feel a part of me is very proud of herself and happy we don’t have to return to revisit dark places. But I am grieving a tremendous loss here. Feeling Lost and ashamed.
Hi Jodi,
Oh dear… well, yes, it’s very possible to have insiders who have very very different views, perspectives, goals, and plans than you have. I would expect that several of your insiders are very opposite to you — that’s kinda the point of having to split into different people, specifically regarding situations that were too impossible and meant to be too opposite for you.
After a decade though….. your therapist will surely understand your multiplicity, and understand that one someone inside can have very different opinions and anger than others or even most others in the system. I would certainly hope that your therapist would consider a long series of termination sessions… IF that is really the plan. Ending 10+ years of therapeutic relationship based on one conversation is really NOT the best way to end anything.
You will need to spend some very very time looking for and talking with this Insider who was able to come out and do this. She is showing herself for a reason, and make her appearance worth it’s weight in gold. She might not know how to act any differently, at the moment, but she has stepped up, and made herself known, so work with that. It’s very very important to build a bridge to her, and to address whatever issues she brings with her.
It’s very uncomfortable – I understand that. I’m hoping your therapist understands DID enough to understand when an insider takes over and tries to pull rank for the whole system. Be courageous…. and unless you agree with the termination of your therapist, be brave enough to contact your therapist again.
You can make some real real progress if you work through this bit. You’ll learn tons.
I wish you the best…
Warmly,
Kathy