We’ve had some very interesting discussions on the “What do you think about Suicide?” blog article. Thank you to everyone who writes and comments on this blog – your participation is valued and appreciated.
One of the topics that surfaced on that thread is the idea that trauma survivors with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID/MPD) may have child parts within their system that can be suicidal, and that the ability to control the suicidal behavior of these child parts seems overwhelmingly difficult, even for the adults of the dissociative system.
I’d like to write an official response to that.
Typically, one thinks of child parts as a permanently young child – an inside part that holds the trauma memories, feelings, rememberings, and experiences that happened when the body was of a young chronological age. These child parts act like children, think like children, reason like children. Their thinking is often very concrete and their grammar / spelling / speech is child-like as well.
So, how does a child part, who is likened after an actual child, have the ability to be suicidal when typically, children do not even understand what death is?
How can these child parts have the ability to act outside of the control of the adults in the system?
There is at least one possible answer for that. 
For dissociative trauma survivors, their childhood was filled with abusive perpetrators. Some — not all — DID survivors have experienced an organized type of abuse by organized groups of perpetrators. These organized groups could have presented themselves as sex slavery groups, or cult groups, or governmental / mind control experimental groups. Any which way, the abuse was more than home-based, chaotic dysfunctional family-crisis abuse. With organized abuse, there would have been a goal, a purpose, and a long-term plan for ongoing and continued abuse and total control of the victim by the offenders.
Organized perpetrators very often purposefully split off child parts and attach suicidal programming to these children. Even while the children are at a very young age, these organized perpetrators demand complete control of the mind and behavior of the child. These perpetrators know they are committing horrendous crimes to their victims, and are invested in keeping the children silenced about these crimes. They instill these controls early in life, and then have every intention of keeping this level of control over the victim for as many years into adulthood as possible. Organized perpetrators actually want life-long control. They begin their domination during the victim’s childhood with the intention of being able to keep that child under their control for their entire life.
Using suicidal programming as a way to control and manipulate behavior is one of the most effective ways for abusers to protect their secrets. Perpetrators have a variety of horrific techniques that they use to accomplish this goal. 
The result is that a child part can be cued or triggered into suicidal thinking, can have a suicidal plan, and could potentially follow the instructions planted in their brain with the same level of intensity as any other mind-controlled person.
The child part does not have to understand what they are doing, nor do they have to understand what death is, nor do they have to understand the effects of their behavior.
In fact, “learning this behavior” is likely more effective if the child does not understand why they are doing what they are doing.
The child parts just have to know what to do, step by step. These child parts have simply been taught clearly defined, specifically detailed behaviors to follow upon command, and they have been taught to follow those controls without thinking.
Perpetrators attach suicidal programming to young children not only at the earliest point of intervention, but also because it goes to their advantage that these child parts genuinely do not understand what death is.
The children know what obedience is and the mind control trainers take advantage of that. Children cannot reason past the orders to understand that they are being told to do something that is harmful to them. They cannot grasp the concept of death enough to fear it the way an adult would, but they know what happens in they don’t obey, so the programming is attached to this level of thinking without any risk of interference by “fear of death”.
In effective trauma therapy, these controls can be removed safely, and the person — both the child parts and the adult parts — can reclaim their own power and control of their behavior. However, as long as the programmed responses are hidden secretly within the child part, the person is at risk for suicidal behavior.
If you are experiencing these kind of suicidal controls, please work with an experienced trauma therapist while addressing these issues. It is imperative that you handle suicidal programming with great caution, and do not assume that just any therapist can do this level of work.
Find a genuine trauma specialist to help you remove suicidal programming from your child parts.
Your safety matters. And yes, you can reclaim the control of your own life.
If you are considering individual therapy work to address these issues, please contact me through private email. Be very careful about exposing too much of this kind of personal information on a public blog site.
Your safety is important.
Warmly,
Kathy
Copyright © 2008-2017 Kathy Broady MSW and Discussing Dissociation
Programmed response??
It had not occurred to us that our suicidal ideation could have been programmed. We didn’t suffer the sort of long-term organized abuse you mention however.
Why we wonder if perhaps we were programmed somehow is how we become suicidal. It’s as if a switch is activated and, zap, we want to go to the river.
It’s not like we work our way up to suicide, it just happens, with no conscious control.
Could our primary abuser have done something? If so, we don’t remember.
***This ended up being a lot longer than I intended, I apologize! Basically we’re having a lot of trouble reaching a suicidal child alter and are seeking advice.***
Hi Kathy! We just found your website today and have been reading as much as we can. I was hoping it was ok to ask a question? As far as I’m aware, we’ve never experienced ritualized abuse of any kind, nor have we ever been deliberately programmed like how you mentioned above. We do, however, have one child alter, who is about 9 years old, who stepped in for a significant amount of mental/emotional abuse, gas lighting, and other stuff, from mostly our mother. Our therapist is treating her as a case of Stockholm syndrome (though of course she can’t diagnose that).
Our biggest roadblock with this alter is she’s incredibly suicidal/self harms a lot. And she’s completely unwilling/almost seems downright *unable* to see that the stuff she’s been told/come to believe is just not true. She also practically worshiped everything about our mom, and is completely unable to see that she was a very abusive individual, not just in a mental/emotional way. (A lot of her abuse was consistently never being allowed to show/feel emotion or receive comfort or support, she was always told she was too sensitive…) I could honestly go on for ages about all the horrible things she was told, but suffice it to say after years and years these sort of messages just became incredibly ingrained in herself, to the point that she continues to essentially abuse herself even without our mother in our life anymore. (Our mother passed a few months ago).
We (us in the system, a close friend, and my husband) have tried to comfort her, reassure her, help her see she can be a child now and receive all the love and support she never did get, but every time we try to help her, it tends to spiral her into self loathing, triggers her to begin abusing herself by repeating every negative message our mom ever said to her, and often spirals her into being intensely suicidal…
How can we help her? What can we do? We’re at a loss here. Our therapist wants her to try to provide proof that, for example, she doesn’t deserve to live (one of her recurrent thoughts). Essentially to try and help her see that what she’s been told was not correct. However she completely refuses; even if she realizes she has no proof, she tends to spiral like we mentioned above, and to her, her simply feeling that way/the fact that our mom said such things, is all the proof she needs… Please help? We will take any suggestions. We’re so worried about her beginning any sort of trauma work because if she gets upset enough she can sort of block us out to an extent and we don’t want her to attempt suicide again, and we don’t want to end up committed to a psychiatric ward (again).
we have had a plethora of new little ones popping up the past month or so. kids we didnt know. and a big handful of them keep saying things like they “have” to die. they dont really say anything else. just random “i need to die!” and “ i have to die!! “ I don’t understand it at all and its very disconcerting. I know nothing about them except that they are determined to destroy themselves in any way possible. they are self injuring in odd ways. and they seem to carry big, heavy feelings on their shoulders.
Oh my, caden! Don’t know how long ago you wrote this…but hope things are better for you…and more understanding has come…..I get the “big, heavy feelings on their shoulders”…my SI part feels EXTREMELY overwhelmed when she triggers – it’s like I can just feel my “brain shut down” – it is SO intense…like there is “something” she knows that she cannot even begin to process and she feels the ONLY way out of it is “to die”…..there are times that there is also a feeling of “supposed to die”…..I have NO understanding, either…….this area seems to be an EXTREMELY SLOW journey into understanding……
The SI part also sometimes wants to do the “self-injury” (less than dying) thing as well…(or is that a different part????)….Anyway, we have managed to not step into the literal action of it – although we “watch” it on the Inside….Outside Her is not letting “self-injury” happen because she will have to “explain” to Outsiders “why” we did that….and Outside Her has no idea what to say…..Her fear of “failure” and having to “explain” has somehow managed to “override” what we see “happening” on the Inside…..
caden! – “disconcerting” (I would say) is the “understatement” of the year!!! Hope you have been getting some insight into those parts….hang in there, caden! We won’t be stuck in this “spot” forever…
MissyMing
10/20/19
T.Clark, sorry you been arguing with spouse. We never could live 24/7 with another outside human being. Too many internal issues. Tried it twice, failed twice. Better for us to be just us at home. Good you apologized and she did too. Understand the catastrophic thinking (it will go away). I know it doesn’t feel like it will and bad feels are hard to sit through. We’re sorry yous gotta deal with stuff that should never have been. PTSD sucks major big-time. Take Care of Yous. 7/4/18
ps. Kathy, if you are seeing this can you please (again, I know) delete the first mssg we wrote in this conversation? Can’t remember what was said, know it was not what we want anyone to hear. ty.
Happy Fourth of July!
Kennedy, thank you for being so specific. We feel less alone when you share.
Lots of sad folks on DD. Include us. Argument with spouse. We were angry. Spouse deserves better. Today, we apologized, so did she. Catastrophic thinking now. Have to take outside child to doctor appointment yet our system is in panic.
Life. Trying to be present. See real. ❤️ 7/3/18
Outside life is far too much for us. I panic in my head about what you gotta face irl when I read what you said. I can see the panicky fear. I am probably psychotic to you. Un-understandable. People call us batshit crazy. Got lots of so far out there ideas, can concentrate. cant remember. i think a lot of times i cant remember. dont be like me. outside life is extremely important. i have no idea how to balance the two. a lot of times i cant remember yesterday. i dont know if i scare you. i dont know how to take what you said. im sorry.
Hi T.Clark,
Ya, lots of sadness on DD. Just lots of struggling going on everywhere it seems.
Arguments with spouse wounds deeply. Hate it when hubby says, “Victoria was out” because that means that we had an argument. Always apologize even when I do not know what happened (which is usually most times). Just feel so thankful that he wants to stick with me. Sometimes … okay often … I get it in my head that he is going to say he cannot take it any more and wants a divorce. Scares the crap out of me. As much as I trust that he is there for me, I always live like I am on borrowed time with him.
Doctor’s appointments a big trigger. I send all of my inside little ones to their safe place and ask them to stay there until I come and tell them that it’s okay to come out.
Hang in there! Positive, loving thoughts sent your way.
ME+WE
07/03/18
A suicidal child part. We recently met one. Again. No emotions, no thoughts, no nothing but do this and do this and must. She is attached (like sister tornadoes) to another insider that is robotic. Waiting to do her job. We did as was suggested and took out the wires and took away the things that they were given and put in them irl. Now? Now I’m afraid I set off a bomb inside. We are okay. I can think still and the fronts are still here. They will need a whole lot of time and showing and re-doing and patience and practice. And an awesome thing that we have had for decades; the atrium. The atrium is our triage hospital sort of area that does not look or feel like any kind of hospital at all. We have a healing pool at the entrance and warm soft cozy sleeping places inside, away from the commotion and chaos and noise. It’s a start. What should we expect next? We have had places and people inside that once we changed their areas and cleaned them and took away what was holding them in place, all that grew back. Most often with a hatred and extreme resolve. We have a spin room that has been demolished several times. Every time it grew back. Finally decided we cant make it go away so we covered it with honeysuckle vines that have deteriorated it to a dilapidated state. Will the suicidal alter and the robot grow back their older forms and ways of being? I dont know how much of this is too much to say. This is why I think I am psychotic. Nobody else I know has this kind of crazy. Thank g-d for dissociation. Right?
Hi Kennedy,
I love how vivid and complex your inside system is. It takes time to find your equilibrium when big shifts take place in your system. And, sometimes it is easier for you to go back to what was familiar (i.e., parts/spaces grow back) then to deal with the void left by the big changes. So, it takes a lot of courage, resolve and determination to make the changes stick. Just keep at it. Positive change will eventually come and stay.
No, I do not think that you are psychotic BTW. If you are then I am too. My folks live on a beach and some live up in the woods. There are all kinds of different places here – the Enchanted Forest, the point with scared boulders, the island of contemplation, the reflecting pool in the woods with healing waters, the waterfall sanctuary, the thicket of thorns, the sacred clearing, the fairy spirit forest and mother earth tree, etc. One of my folks lives in the woods in a cave with a pack of wolves. The wolves howl when this alter is being disturbed (that I hear loud and clear in my head) but they also interact with my other insiders on their own too sometimes. They are alters but they are companions to this one alter. But, then again I do have a horse who lives on the beach with my little ones and who also manages to fit somehow in their sunshine tent (which is in my house not at the beach). Then my alter Tom has a spirit horse as well that he takes with him on his vision quests.
So, just saying that our inside worlds can be very complex and not “big people reality based”. That is not crazy. That is a very, very, very creative world of survival.
Your humble friend,
ME+WE
07/03/18
Don’t know what it is I am dealing with…but intrigued with all of your input about young parts with suicidal feelings….don’t know if mine is connected to “programming” or what is going on – have no memory of anything like that…..but I have several parts that when they feel “trapped” in a Catch 22 or a “double-bind” that they don’t know what to do about, they almost instantly get overwhelmed and collapse to the floor…..they think that the only way out is to die – then I get a flood of suicide “scenarios” in my “face” showing all kinds of different ways to die…..sometimes I sense background waves of “supposed to….supposed to”…….it is scary and still hard to do….but I find that if I just let those scenarios flow over me WITHOUT (definitely WITHOUT) reacting in any way to them, it helps to release some of the intense internal pressure of the double-bind…and then I can try to breathe and keep functioning…..”seeing” it as a perspective that THEY carry and not necessarily the present Me helps me to stay moment by moment steady….I acknowledge their feeling without being totally caught up in it – I want to try to help them….but I don’t understand any of this yet and don’t know what to do…..if I try to block off the scenarios it triggers off Rage looking at me – angry that I am not listening to them – right now my focus is to try to maintain balance as much as possible and just keep staying alive…….
Hi, my name is Rayette, and i am totally blind. I have two alters who are mute and who are dealing with suicidal programming. The other day, i came back from shopping to find that there was a huge bottle of tylenol in my bag. Every time i try to throw it away, they take over and hide it. i live by myself and my therapist knows nothing about DID. I was just diagnosed in August by a psychiatrist. I’m 25 and have been through 24 and a half years of abuse. Thanks Kathy for your blog. I was also told that if i go back to my local er that they will have me involuntarily committed to an institution, have my rights taken awway and have the state become my guardian.
Hi angellic23,
I am sure that there are others who will be better able to respond to you here but I wanted to give you a shout out to say that I hear you — you are not alone. I hope that you are in a safe environment now. That is essential. Although your T knows nothing about DID perhaps they can help guide you to someone who does work with DID folks. In the meantime, maybe your T can help you maintain some stability so you do not end up in ER. You might also want to consider booking some sessions with Kathy and/or Laura to help you understand what is happening and to help guide you in what you should be looking for in a therapist that can assist you on a more regular basis.
I have not experienced formal “programing” of this type although I do have one little one who wants to give up and die. I have teenager alters who have plans to get rid of me. I have some inside helpers that I work with to try and make things safe. One of my insiders who is very helpful has talked to my T about keeping a watch out for suicidal behaviours in others and making sure that I (the host) am altered to such activities. Maybe you can find one of your insiders to keep watch and help you.
Say, check out the comments under the topic heading – “What Do You Think About Suicide”. Wren introduced the idea that we need to have a basket of safety nets to help us through our tough times. We have started to post some ideas there. Maybe some of those ideas will speak to you angellic23. Maybe you can start thinking about what safety nets you may want to put in your basket. Take small steps here. Just something to keep you (and your insiders) focused on living.
My thoughts and positive, healing energy are with you angellic23.
Reblogged this on Art by Rob Goldstein and commented:
Some people have asked me about my child alternates. As a child I thought that it was good that I could choose to die. The deeper I go into therapy the more I struggle with the parts that find the truth too painful to live with.
What if you dont have any one to help and nothing you do works?
I don’t understand this Kathy.. when I get real depressed.. when I don’t pay attention to my parts.. I get suicidual . my therapist described my loathing and depression as having the toughts of the perpertualer as real deep into my mind.. as like u said.. programming.. but I guess I have to go inside and find out the part or parts that are suicidal . I always think it is me who is.. thougths? so there are parts or parts that have always wanted to die even though they had no idea o want death was
We have so much to say on this topic, having trouble knowing where to start.
It is new information to us that a child wouldn’t/shouldn’t know about death or fear it. When we first read this blog we thought it was awfully naïve to think a child didn’t “understand” these things but that is looking from our childhood- not in general. We knew what death was at the age of 6–might not of understood everything about it but we knew what it meant when a heart stopped and you were killed. You would be dead. We grew up with that fear of death on a daily basis, and some even looked forward to it. We grew up on a farm and the death of animals was often a reference to what would happen to us if we didn’t behave. He brought us into this world and by the grace of GOD he would take us out. There was no cult activity or government mind control in my childhood. But I can relate to some of the things you say to my mother. She was ALL about control even into the adult years. She had a way of manipulating our mind to do whatever she said no matter how much it would hurt us even as an adult when we would know it was “wrong”………That is one of our biggest problems to this day trying to change those engraved messages and go against them when everything inside is screaming for us not to. So I believe that parents have a way of mind controlling or whatever you call it that makes it feel literally impossible to heal. It has been 3 years now since most contact has been gone between us and the mother-dad is dead. But it feels like we are now alone in our own private hell with no direction.
I know of one child alter wrote she wanted to die on the barn loft when she was 9 years old. And another who had the first suicide attempt at 12. To them death was real and very understood. So the fear of death can be placed a child’s mind so easily especially when they have lost something they truly loved by the father’s hands for not “behaving” and it is quite the motivator to do what you are told.
I tried to suicide at 6 yrs old. Repeatedly. When I couldn’t get it to work, I started fantasizing about it- everyday, all day long, all life long. It is still an issue to this day with the specific child alter and I’ve been in therapy since 2002. We knew what death was as early as we can remember. 3? We knew heights could kill. And we’re afraid, sorta… And sorta longed for it.
With the death of my cat this week, I was worried greatly about that alter, but even moreso with the impending death (cancer) of our favorite therapist. Safety plans are being put in place, but still know one knows how to undo the suicide programming.
KiyaCat
One thing I have discovered over time is that I really do not have “suicidal” parts but I know of at least one who will do very serious harm to the “other parts” to try & keep them in line. With this being said, I used to find very significant bruises around my lower abdomen as this part would punch my “physical” body so hard & violently that both sides looked like I had a server car accident. Or other significant bruises that could be hidden from others so no one could do anything to lock me up. As I have worked very hard within myself (no contract needed) I found out this part was replaying an abusers actions & when this was brought to their attention it seemed to pretty much stop the acting out as they did not want to be that “monster”. As my legal name was the same as my biological mothers, this seemed to be the key & my T gave the idea & power to this part to find another name that makes them not the abuser. Even though legally the name is still there for bills, etc. it is no longer the parts which changed everything.
Also, one thing for others to try & remember I personally think is that all these parts were created to “survive” the unimaginable horror inflicted upon them in childhood, so really digging in & trying to discover what motivates self-harming behaviors from those parts is really a question to that part. It has always seems odd to me that we (others with parts & myself) tried so hard to survive, so why is it at this point any part now is wanting to kill ourselves? It is such an opposite stance to the will to live.
Yes, I have tried many times to commit suicide & even succeeded for a few brief moments throughout the years but as I am learning, working hard I find I still periodically think about it but now I realize I want to feel the “good” feelings which I have never felt in my life but every so often now get a little taste of them and I cannot leave this world without experiencing the other side of life (good). And yes, I have to sometimes look within to get there.
I also have realized my life is not a “Sybil” movie. What I mean by this are the changes are slow, not dramatic like in movies. The therapists are not like in these movies. When I discovered I had DID I truly thought it would be like the movies like Sybil, the Two Faces of Eve & When Rabbit Howls but “DRAMA” sells. And what truths do we really know about those folks? My truths are REAL, my HEALING is a slow & gradual process and there are no commercials that take the reality away from my own pain & suffering.
I guess after thinking about what causes us to try & self destruct (pain, worth, value, image, etc.), It is very hard to understand (inside & out) why we deserve not to self-punish, but like I have been told & read a lot about, is it make take the pain away for awhile but it sure as heck will come back over & over until the true reasons come up that caused it in the first place. A child is not born displaying or acting out wants & needs to hurt themselves. So the real question I ask myself is how does one get to that point? When I think about it like that I have realized something must have went terribly wrong for any part of me to feel & act this way. Would I treat someone else or a child like that? NO – so I have to think why I would think that way about & within myself.
I know this was a bit lengthy but I am hoping even a word or sentence may get you thinking with your logical self & when you realize the logic you have the power within you to reach in & ask these questions. No it still isn’t easy by all means & a lot of extremely hard work, but as I am still on my journey I can share & hopefully help someone on their journey.
As an adult I can fight this all the way & not deal with this stuff but who truly is the one getting hurt by me doing this? ME!! Not the T, not the abusers, not the therapist – JUST ME!! If I don’t find me through myself & my parts no one else will!!
At any rate, sorry this was so very long – I hope any of it can help someone else – 🙂
This is stuff that its really just better to not talk about because it just makes pepol mad at you,betterr to keep it inside.
Reblogged this on Discussing Dissociation and commented:
Hello Everyone,
Here is a difficult but important topic — suicidal child parts within the dissociative system. The original article has over 30 comments. Your thoughts and opinions on this topic are welcomed too.
Stay safe, and please do help your internal children to be safer too!
Warmly,
Kathy
Thank you for writing this, reassures me that we can work through this. I have a couple of littles that are suicidal and a few older ones too. They are always triggered by someone sharing too much information. Working on more communication, but it just seems to be getting harder and harder!
Reblogged this on Understanding Me and Her.
You write that children do not understand death, and that they do not fear it. I very vividly remember death being a threat and being totally clear on what dying would consist of. I remember being shown how they would kill me. And I remember feeling like I wanted to be the one to choose when that happened instead. I feel like a fraud – how can I have had those feelings as a young child (6 maybe?) and yet you say it isn’t possible?
This take me a long time to read
But it make me think
It make me wunder bout claire an jadie
And that little one that oways hits her legs and yell out out
And girls like angel that cant breth
And oways jodie
Speshaly how they be at sertin times of the year
Ther be sertin girls that oways think they have to die
Tuck
csunbean, oops i forgot one other thing. these little parts with suicide programming are hurt and frightened and have no other way to cope with the pain they feel. i learned to acccept them, praise them for what they did for us – all alts are doing something they believe helps us. my T helped me learn to be sweet to them and let them hold our rustybear and we rock them and tell them all the sweet words we never heard as a child. ultimately a suicidal part doesn’t WANT to kill themselves, they are just DESPERATE to make the pain stop and not get worse. they are so afraid and lonely, they need the love they never got along with others in your system probably.
i hold my bear and rock and tell them i love them and we both enjoy it. i’m late at learning to nurture my system so i just borrow from how i treated my human children and it seems to help whoever is upset.
see ya, multipixie
hi csunbean, that is a good and complicated question. we have been working with our T for many years and we both have the same spiritual beliefs and that has been very good to help with the programming. God has helped me through time spent with my T, to recognize the “patterns” of behavior and the triggers and lies they reinforced with pain and fear.
we were so intensely frightened by certain of our abusers that we did whatever they wanted, no matter how horrible or grotesque. they made us do cult things and then told us God hated us and would never forgive us. they used pain to reinforce all their “training” and just plain scared the shit out of us.
because i was verbal and chatty from the time i learned to talk i was very scared i might slip up and tell on them and so they did such evil things to me that we were totally focused on never speaking about the abuse – we buried it so deep we did not know we were dissociative until our later 30’s and i was told we had “complicated” DID. it took me quite a while to learn to trust my T and my God so that they could begin to set me free from hellish memories and programmed responses that produced self-harm behaviors.
i still feel grateful and kind of amused (dark humor i guess) that for every suicidal part there was always a part developed to do whatever it took to keep us from killing the body we share. sometimes there were several there one to block, one to absorb some of the pain, a spiritual part to pray for the help we needed when most of us didn’t know what the hell was going on with us. (sorry for the cuss words, sometimes they just seem to express things for some of my inside family)
i don’t remember what the rules are on Kathy’s forum so i can’t explain how the spiritual part is done and what that does for us. Bottom line is that we have a relationship with God and he has been rescuing us gradually from the devestating mess abuse made of our/my life. i hope this helps a bit, i want all of us who suffer from dissociative disorders to find a way back into real life instead of the nightmare that life has been. see ya,
Multipixie
WOW is all I can say. WOW.. getting through to 20 programmed parts.. But HOW do you get to the WOW? People talk of deprogramming but I don’t know what that means other than repeating over and over and over that we are safe and the bad people are not going to come get us if we remember, share the facts.
we have had at least 20 programmed parts with this agenda. if we got close to certain information or got too close to revealing cult activity we had triggers in certain parts to immediately suicide out. it has been very hard work to break down the lies and the training so that we now know as a group of many alters that suicide in absolutely forbidden and is no longer necessary as the ones who hurt us are now dead or far far away.
the ones who did this to us are unspeakably evil and damnable and we livied in spite of them. yea us.
leslie
mae used to be suicidal a lot. we had to watch her around knives and stuff. she is 5. we dont know where she got these ideas in her head. i don’t think our old T would talk to her about it. she probably told us to handle it. which was funny, because we didn’t know how. mae isn’t as sad now as she was back then, usually, only once in a while does she talk about wanting to die, but we don’t know why she says it. she understands death all too well though. but we have had friends commit suicide, so maybe she found out from them. i don’t know though.. as a little kid, i used to want to… it is hard to tell with her. mae won’t tell. secrets, you know.
I got a part what panocs and just ‘wants it to stop’, and that one can be impulsive.
Like I almost eg rode in front of a bus.
It not suicidal per se, it just wanted to make it stop.
Hmmmm, this post leaves me without words. Most of my insiders are young.
I am wondering if there is something between RA and dysfunctional families?
Mom was a psychologist, so anything to do with the mind, became an art form…..maybe. ( Makes therapy easy….not LOL)
Parents and parents friends, all were very influential, so maybe just something to “do”?
This post makes me want to go back and read the previous one and maybe rethink some viewpoints.
So…..maybe not RA? Maybe just a game, to see how much she could undo my mind. A mind that she still has a hold of. (working hard on reversing that)
I have a few suicidal child insiders, each has a different belief as to why they “need” to die.
Good thing I am strong……..seems she couldnt take that away, no matter how hard she tried.
CG — Oh, that’s a great idea … it never occurred to me to try to introduce an additional media source into the room. Sheesh! This is what comes of not actually having a television in my 3-D real life house; I don’t think of these kinds of things. 🙂
Sam — I can’t even imagine what it would be like to be hospitalized, as a child, in a foreign country. No wonder that little one feels misunderstood.
David — I had to search for the meaning of the word in dictionary since I am not… “native speaker” (or what is the right word, help me please :.-| ), and, yes, thank you for the word behind which is our envy of your masterful ability to express yourself in the language. I am becoming aware that this envy stems from the fear felt by my Misunderstood Alter – a five years old boy created when I was for indefinitely long time left in another country with another language when I was 5 years old and I/he was/is unable to tell correctly what his needs are because they didn’t spoke his language in the foreign climatic hospital for the asthmatic children and I/he didn’t/don’t speak theirs masterly enough.
Regarding the self-hatred alter, offering him to change just made him even more convinced that we hate him, as well. I know.
I probably should have clarified David, I wasn’t meaning to suggest that you do something as drastic as changing Jamie’s TV channel. I was thinking more along the lines of introducing another TV, video, radio or something similar to have an additional soft sound or positive picture, as a small change. As Jamie wouldn’t see this as a small change, it could just go inside the room, near the door, so Jamie could still get rid of it if needed. It might be non-threatening enough so that it wouldn’t be rejected, but a positive change that expands Jamie’s world.
I like the term “unorganised chaos” Dayna. Not what it represents, but rather how it accurately describes the hellish situation.
That sounds like a stunning way to accept the extreme emotion of your young one Sam’s bold and creative alter. I wish we were brave enough to try something similar, but our fear that W will follow through with her plans is too strong.
I agree with the concept of the young one trying to protect in any way they can find Ivory. It is similar with our W. She often punishes us for telling the secrets and not staying invisible. Whenever someone reveals too much she comes forward to say that it is all lies. Yet she is the one who holds so much and is often caught in assessment between the need to please the authority figure (assessing psychiatrist) by telling the truth of her experiences and trying to keep the secrets.
Hi, this is Dayna and I don’t think we were part of any “religious cult” or organized crime ring so to speak. The father was very much into having his “friends” help him in his crimes. So, maybe “unorganized chaos” should be the right term for that one. Interesting thoughts from everyone. Thanks for the great topic, Ms Kathy.
Dayna (hope it was ok for me to post)
Sam — Thank you for sharing that; I’m intrigued by the very creative solution you found to move your alter past his need to not exist. One of the most pervasive blocks, with my alter, is his/her perception that because my therapist and I would like him/her to experience change, s/he is “wrong.” S/he has no ability to see any change as positive; any suggestion of change simply reinforces the idea that s/he is wrong and bad, and that makes him/her even more uncooperative.
Anyway, I appreciate the fact that you took the time to describe your experience, despite your having found me somewhat … off-putting, I guess the word would be.
MPixie — Thanks; I appreciate the support.
Hi David,
We really relate to your Jamie. We spent many years reading novels and also using tv as someplace to put our mind and stop constantly being upset, triggered. We also use a fan and earplugs at night and our children (in real life) learned to wake mommy VERY gently when they needed help, otherwise I would levitate off the bed with a heart rate around 150!
I am going through periods where I do better at staying involved in our real-world life and then if stress gets high, we tend to begin avoiding and distracting ourselves. Hang in there, I know it gets tough!
Ivory — Hmmmm, hmmmm. That’s very interesting. Thank you for sharing that. I do have reason to think that this alter holds a lot of missing memory, so perhaps the seeming hostility does have some protective element. I’ll have to see if I can get anywhere with that line of thought.
CG — Jamie uses the TV to avoid having to participate in current-day events that s/he finds to be triggering … it’s his/her version of safe space. It’s not an ideal solution, but it’s better than having him/her continually triggered. Yes, it is a version of white noise, and I think it is Jamie’s part of my brain that also can’t sleep without a fan in the background. I’ve tried changing the programming on the TV a couple of times, with disastrous results. This alter is in such an unbelievable amount of pain that s/he takes everything the wrong way, if you know what I mean. 🙂
David, I wonder if your young one is using the static TV as a form of “white noise” to eliminate other sound? If that is the case, what occurs when other noise is heard either internally or externally? I wonder if there is a way to make some form of connection with them through an alternative sound?
I imagine you’ve tried this already, but thought I’d suggest it anyway.
David,
I, too have a young alter who’s main purpose in life is to protect me to the point of dying to do it. She acted as if she had great contempt for me, but she doesn’t hate me; quite the opposite. I cannot “talk” to my alters, instead, I feel. It’s kind of like understanding from osmosis. Anyway, my point is that because I could not self-talk/communicate with her and she refused to communicate with me or anyone who would talk to me, I had become alarmingly close to slipping away on pills. My T was the one to finally make a connection with her – they played a child’s card game and then he found a toy top that lit up when he spun it. He said she was totally fascinated by it and developed a memory in the present that was good and fun. And it worked.
I don’t remember any of it but eventually, she learned to trust my daughter, too. Eventually, she allowed me to feel her presence and has offered her story to my T because she wanted me to know parts of it. Her apparent dislike for me was her way of keeping me from getting close and trying to “remember” all the sordid details of my past.
Trusting is the key. It always comes down to that, for me. I hope you find your “key” and make a connection with your little troubled one.
🙂
Ivory
Thanks, Kathy. We’ll keep pegging away at it.
I’m going to briefly mention my experience with this alter here, just in case there are other readers who relate to this; I’d be curious as to how people deal with it.
As far as I know, I have not encountered any kind of cult, ritual, or organized abuse. I do, however, have a suicidal child alter who is about six or seven years old. This alter understands perfectly well what death is, and that it is irreversible. This alter has wanted the body dead since the body was the same age as the alter, but as a child, we didn’t have the knowledge or means to accomplish that goal, and as an adult, we have more clearly understood the repercussions of a failed suicide attempt, and that understanding has kept us comparatively safe.
The interesting thing to me about this alter is that s/he ( the alter is completely androgynous) absolutely hates me, which makes communciation difficult, if not impossible. We’ve made incremental progress as far as my being able to explain that this alter’s habit of getting my attention by making me physically ill doesn’t help me to attend to his/her needs; and s/he somehow acquired a dog, which s/he seems to want, though I never see any interaction between them. However, there is nothing that this alter admits to wanting, except wanting our shared body to be dead. S/he wants only the cessation of our existence, and that’s it. Or at least, that’s all the communication I get. S/he hates everyone else in the system also, so there’s no communication possible through those avenues. And s/he hates our therapist. As far as I can tell, the only thing this alter ever does, aside from wishing we were all dead, is to sit in his/her room, watching static patterns on the television I gave to him/her so that s/he wouldn’t have to watch the dreams of another alter whose night-time mental rovings s/he didn’t like.
I’m quite baffled as to how to get through to this alter; anything I show is ignored, anything I give (except for the television) is rejected, and s/he simply will not admit to having any investment in the idea of living, or to wanting anything out of life that might allow me to meet needs or provide something different.
If anyone’s had an alter like this, and you found some way of communicating, I’d be very interested to hear about it.
@ David – oh, my, I now understand a connection that was felt by some alters towards you despite the literary (intellectually) elitist defense that has frightened our other alters at your blog.
The alter, the suicidal (I prefer to label it self-hatred alter because I agree with my host that it is not the behavior but the extreme emotion what happens to be a driving force behind alters), you were describing above, is almost an exact copy of my self-hatred alter!
“(…) there is nothing that this alter admits to wanting, except wanting our shared body to be dead. S/he wants only the cessation of our existence”
Reading the above quote, I had to smile because that’s how he felt, and he was deaf to all reasons and arguments coming from the rest of us (our system) and encouragements that he, too, can learn to enjoy life if he only let us help him.
He hated to be offered (or getting) help by anyone at all (even more than I – the bold alter – do 😉 )…
“(…) the only thing this alter ever does, aside from wishing we were all dead, is to sit in his/her room, watching static patterns on the television”
My self-hatred alter could be distracted by being shown the same cartoons over and over (any new cartoons would just make him want our body to cease to exist, no matter what.). Nothing could make him a bit happier or wanting to learn to enjoy life, those cartoons just distracted him (they didn’t make him any happier, though!). He had only one wish – to see me dead, and since I saw no other option but to let him express and fulfill his dream, a had a series of most vivid dreams.
In one of those dreams which I had in several consequent nights I have thrown my body on the knife (going through my heart and I died).
The other dream was of experiencing heaving brain stroke and I could see my brain dying one brain center after another – until there was dead body left on the bad and I was leaving the body).
The third dream was of our body walking, refusing to hide, in the middle of atom bomb attack, exposing to the explosions until the body was fried to death.
Making his dreams true in a way, make him feel valid and acknowledged and his extreme feelings accepted by the rest of us (our system). It felt a kind of gift given to him by the rest of us that made him a satisfied little boy, and now being able to learn to enjoy life with the rest of us…
Don’t know how long ago this post was…just been strolling through article titles and this struck me….interesting that you have allowed your suicidal part to follow through in dreams….that is what I have had to do at times….not so much in “night” dreams…but in “day” dreams…….
(Kathy…I don’t know if this is saying “too much”….I am no longer sure what that means…please don’t post it if it IS too much – or most likely – WAY too long ….just wanting….needing…. – to get it out….simply part of me “processing” …..)
Have had the “suicidal” one triggered at work sometimes and it has really been distracting for me…..have to make my body keep cleaning while Twilight Zone has set in and I am watching this Insider being completely overwhelmed – and with Despair standing right next to her…..then here comes all the other parts with their ideas of what to do…..some agreeing with her in order to help her out of her overwhelm, others wanting me (the body) to run out of the building, one wanting me to collapse to the floor, one wanting me to head to ER or to the “hospital”….. just solutions from everywhere…..and I HAVE to keep working….because the Outside working one is terrified to “fail” in her job and have to answer to Outsiders….plus she is “aware” of the potential consequences of a failed suicide…….failure can mean more stuff on her plate to have to deal with…….yet, she is also terrified of the “unknowns” of suicide success……
Each part is desperate and projecting its “solution” in my face and I don’t know which one “to pick”…..yet the Outside one must measure each against potential Outside consequences – because that is where the bottom line is – having to answer to bosses and to hubby – which is VERY scary because then they will know how bad off I really am……I bounce around as I wait for it to all finally settle down….
Sometimes the pressure and confusion can be so intense, the Outside one will “allow” the suicidal one to “act out” her need in a “day” dream (my Inside eyes watch it) – while making sure my Outside eyes continue to “see” what I am cleaning….so I can make sure my Outside body has not followed through with the “day” dream….and hopefully have not had too much “work time” lost in the process of all the distraction……my body DOES keep moving……
The “day” dreams can help relieve the Internal chaos…..although it is also hard to walk through because of glimpses of weird undercurrents of “supposed to…..” – and then this “side branch” of fear about failing to do what I was “supposed to”……..but my “plate is so full” in that moment I can’t go there to figure that part out…….. but the main thing I feel in those moments is the feeling that “there is no other way out”…….I don’t know why all that is there…….
The Twilight Zone scares me – moments when my Inside World suddenly oozes (or jerks) into my Outside World and I can’t figure out where I am at…..Inside or Outside? …… maybe that is why the idea of “blends” scare me and I end up (i.e. HAVE TO) ask my boss “90 weird questions” that make him irritated with me….because Insiders are desperate to know where we are at and HAVE to ask questions – but I CAN’T let him know THAT part….and anyway, I still don’t know how to trust what is told to me…..Am I safe? Am I being head-gamed? Lied to? Manipulated? What is going to happen next? Is he mad at me? (danger) ….. His irritation has now closed the door to me…and I sometimes feel like I am about to explode Inside from unanswered questions…..
I have somehow progressed in therapy enough to where I don’t body-wise “bottom out” with my bosses as much as in the beginning…..I told him I have PTSD so he finally could “understand” when I got triggered and went into shaking, couldn’t talk, froze-mode…….that doesn’t happen as often on the Outside now….so he thinks that means I am now “OK”….and expects me to ACT OK……BUT, he doesn’t know that the Internal turmoil has NOT lessened ….evidently “triggers WITH shaking” is acceptable…..”triggers WITHOUT shaking is NOT acceptable”……and the desperate questions must remain unasked and unanswered because they irritate him…….
Sometimes my T has asked me if I want to be hospitalized…..I SO, SO want to….simply for the time and space to be in “Inside only” for a while – to have a chance to “see”….to not be bounced back and forth so much…..but Outside Her is too scared of the consequences of “failing” her job…… Also T has said that if I am hospitalized, I will have to have drugs….then here come the nightmares of me fighting Them and screaming “No drugs! No drugs! I don’t want drugs!” ….I am terrified for hubby and bosses to know just how “messed up” I am….. terrified that I will find out that I HAVE indeed made all of this up……I am scared for all this to be “true”…..and scared for it to “not be true” …… where does that leave me????
I don’t know why – after having lived life for almost 64 years now – living “life” is SO, SO hard for me….so intense, so confusing……stuff is bubbling up (for several years now) and I don’t know why….things I used to could just breeze through now leave me at an emotionally paralyzed stand still…..
I think I have come up with some type of “picture” of it…..
It is like “washing dishes”……someone asks you what you are doing and you say….”Just washing dishes….” and you just do it….no big deal….it’s a breeze…..that is what all my previous years have been – “just doing it” ……. even though there have been times of nagging feelings of there is “more to the story”……well…..now the “rest of the story” is bubbling up…….
I am starting to “see” the steps to “just washing dishes”……I have to scrape the plates and organize the piles and the order of the dishes, empty the liquids out of the glasses and cups, scrape out the big burned on food in pots and pans and get them soaking, somehow find where I put the sink stopper and make it fit right, turn the faucet knobs on – try to find just the perfect temperature I need, find the dish soap and put in the right amount, etc, etc…….
I didn’t know “just washing dishes” could be so, so “complicated”, intense, and take so, so long…….what I thought all along was just a “breeze” – I am finding out WASN’T…..it was a whole behind the scenes “system” of steps in operation….all coming together to LOOK like “a breeze”……a system that has been working hard to determine danger and safety, meanings of undercurrents and dreams, body language, face expressions and voice tones, levels of potential consequences, angles of human interaction – all with them having an “awareness” of something that is still yet hidden from “me”……a system that tries to protect (or not???) Insiders and at the same time walk my body through the maze of an Outside World……
I look back over my life and I can see the times the “system” has tried to let me know it was there….but I thought I was just having a really “weird” moment and just pushed it down or aside….and kept on “just washing dishes”……now it is time to see the system that has been there at work….no wonder “just doing dishes” now takes me hours….and days………
I am sorry….I babbled…..again…..I will try hard to stop….don’t know why I am so “weird”…..maybe I am sick with something and don’t know it yet……sorry…..
Oh my gosh MissyMing — please do not apologize for speaking your truth here! Your “babbling” is healthful for all of us and you too it sounds like. Oh and you are not “weird” at all. You are in the turmoil of chaos that is life with DID. All that you have said here and in your other postings (I am thinking specifically of the posting about hoarding here) offer such insight for us all for we all relate to what you have said at least in part. It also helps the rest of us to shine a light on our own stuff and encourages us to share here as well.
Your posting here sure has made me look at washing dishes in a whole new light … hahahaha! You are right, everything that we do is complex even what appears to be the simplest of tasks. It is exhausting just trying to get through a “normal” day. And wow do I ever relate to just wanting to be put in a hospital somewhere nice and quiet to just be with myself and sort things out.
Wouldn’t it be great if there was a DID retreat that we could go to that was quiet and we would just get cared for?! Let’s try to imagine one in our heads. To me it would be spacious, have big over-stuffed chairs to sink into, fireplaces, trees and gardens and maybe a beach or some water feature, great food and snacks, herbal teas to warm us up and chocolate-chip cookies for the little ones. We can be by ourselves or with others as we like. No one needs to explain how they are feeling and why because we will all know. We can get hugs when we want them or space when we need it. Just whatever our hearts’ desire.
Sending warm thoughts and (((hugs))) your way!
ME+WE
11/12/18
Hello Me+We…..Just now trying to catch up on reading…..thank you so much for your encouragement…for even understanding “in part”……I babble and process ….process and babble….and then realize what I have done and panic about potential consequences of it….yet there is a “part” somewhere who just keeps reminding me “it is what it is”……
Went through a really hard week last week and ended up in ER and then 3 days in the “unit”…..although they seemed hesitant with my leaving, they had to “honor” it because I had signed myself in…….I was getting really worried about how big the bill would be…..
Your idea of the DID retreat sounded so awesome to me….to actually “fit in” somewhere….to be “who” I am without fear of the looks on faces, or undercurrents in their voice,….to be able to “explain” or “not explain” …. whichever I way I chose – and not have the turmoil of trying to figure out if that choice was “right” or “wrong”….. and then if there would be consequences…….to finally have a chance to know what “OK” feels like….maybe even SAFE! I am not talking about “safe” on the Outside…..I am talking about ever being able to feel “safe” on the Inside……..
I ended up in the unit because Outside Her collapsed because of flashes now mixed with “body sensations” (???)……It is NOT good for Inside and Outside to “mix”….it messes up Outside Her’s ability to “work”……there have to be “levels and angles of separation” that only the “system” seems to be able to determine how it will work…….
Anyway…with the Outside collapse…..we started seeing the “suicidal one” coming to the forefront…..we usually just see her through “like a piece of glass”….but this time we saw her heading toward the surface…..
The “parts” started panicking….and shook and babbled away to anyone who they thought might listen…..desperate for someone to “understand” so Outside Her could get “OK”……..We shook big time, having a hard time getting words out ….but we “talked”…because we thought it was supposed to be “safe” place…
We even heard our T (who went with us) tell them that “I” had dissociation….and parts…little ones who would speak up…..”I” was sitting there (from an Inside “distance”) faintly aware that “I” was desperately holding onto a toy stuffed fish that a “little” had latched onto in their front office…(I am “co-conscious” to varying degrees)…..we babbled because they were supposed to be “Inside stuff” people….people who “understood”……
Anyway….when you start seeing “Inside stuff” people backing away from you…or obviously patronizing you….or even “snickering” when you walked by….it leaves you feeling totally “lost” and confused…but we were adamant in NO drugs…we are “afraid” of drugs……
I don’t know what all came out of my mouth….I could only catch “bits and pieces”…..but in the final “staff meeting” for my release….a “part” was desperate to know if they thought we were making all of this up….the “big doctor’s” response was “….we just believe you have some very serious problems….” What did THAT mean????? They believed?….or didn’t believe….?
During the final “therapist” meeting before we left….a “part” was still explaining away to her how “we worked”…..(again – “Inside stuff” people are supposed to understand)…..we asked her if she thought we were making this up….her response – after a WAY too long moment of hesitation was……”If it is real to YOU…then that is what is relevant”……..Again…..What does THAT mean????
So, yeah…your idea of a retreat sounds AWESOME…in fact – it is SO awesome I am seeing “little ones” who are overwhelmed by it…..some pacing from anxiety, some overwhelmed and frozen, some crying from confusion & fear….I wish I could see even ONE who knew how to feel “OK” with it – to even eat a cookie ….. most don’t seem to know what they are supposed to do…..
But I figure it would be a place for them to LEARN how to “feel” OK……
Obviously I have more work to do…I find it interesting that it is “littles” who bubble up the most…who, so far, are the most vocal……On the Outside….”me” and “real” children DON’T mix…..I feel “scattered, anxious, and disconnected” even being around them…interaction with them basically does not exist at all (I have no kids – was “terrified” of the idea of ever having any)……so, go figure all this….part of the journey, I guess……..
Thanks again Me+We…your comments are always appreciated and pondered…..
Following on from David’s comment – would be interested in hearing more about the ritual/cult aspect (though don’t want to trigger anyone of course). It seems that DID is often associated with it – more than I would expect and have personally experienced. Many of the DID people I converse with have not had ritual or cult encounters therefore how prevalent is it? Is it just the extreme of the extreme? Must abuse have been “organised” in order to create DID-type fragmentation? Apparently not..
Any difference or clarification between terms used “ritual” and “organised” – is there a difference?
Any clarification appreciated! 🙂
BTC —
lol, I can always count on you to come up with the hard questions, lol.
I am currently working on a longer, more detailed response to that. Those are hard questions to answer quickly.
More later –
Kathy
This really helped me. I’ve never posted here before as I am a big chicken but, I hope I can maybe talk to my T about this.
Thanks,
lisa
Hi Soulfulgrrl-
Thank you for being brave enough to make your first comment! I’m very glad to hear that this article helped you a lot, and I do hope that you and your t can find ways to work successfully with these issues.
Thanks for writing – I appreciate that.
Kathy
Mmm, oh, I feel sucker punched. Since reading this post, I have wondered if I have an alter that has given you more information about me than I’d planned on doing. I don’t know how, tho.
This topic has come up in my therapy, but I had no idea they actually program the child. I didn’t know about that, but now other things make sense.
I have a 7 year old who doesn’t speak verbally, she uses sign language. To my T’s credit, he has learned how to finger spell so he knows what she is saying. I don’t think all my colors (alters) communicate and I don’t know how, or if, they talk – like in verbally, or if it’s just thoughts.
…This would explain the several years, the long months, the many days… I’m glad my session is tomorrow.
Shell-shocked,
Ivory
Hi Ivory,
I’m glad to hear that this post helps to explain some of the things you have been experiencing for years of time… AND, by the sounds of it, it is a good thing you have therapy tomorrow!
And the only things I know about you are what you have written as comments here in this blog — that’s it, and nothing else. I promise! 🙂
However, I’ve noticed thru’ my 20+ years of working with clients with organized abuse that there are a number of similarities in the types of things that these organized perpetrators do to children. While there are always individual differences, it seems that the perps often followed a few standard procedures. Since I’ve heard similar things often enough, it’s no surprise to me that someone else can recognize the pattern in their history as well.
I hope this information helps you and your therapist to have a really good session tomorrow.
Kathy
I wrote more regarding this on SF – but I do have a question for here – what about when the suicidal part just is non verbal?
I get really strangely utterly not speaking at all when in such throes and this has been observed – so I am wondering – how do you communicate or reach or deal with an inside who sends very powerful vivid images that are basically inherently entrancing – and utterly non verbal? And when I slide into being entranced by these images – I get non verbal, and loosed from the threads of rational and lulled into that state.
You know I am incredibly verbal normally – so whats with this non verbal and its sometimes rather intensely strong pulls, and how does one communicate with what only communicates in powerfully entrancing imagistic means?
A – I do/am trying to get better at recognizing – “this is an influence from inside – not all of me”
B – but words get me nowhere with this and some very young powerful insides just are only imagistic – what are helpful interventions in such cases?
Dollswise,
My first approach with parts that are non-verbal is to use the method of communication that they are presenting. These parts you are referring to have images — visual pictures. Am I understanding correctly? So… try communicating with them through pictures. Draw what you see, so your therapist can get a sense of what you are looking at, or describe the pictures in as much vivid detail as possible. Start from there, and see what you can learn at that point….
And yes, it is not so odd to have parts that either cannot speak, or cannot see, or cannot hear, etc . So to me, that means it’s time to get creative and find a new way to communicate with them.
Good luck!!
Kathy
Hmmmm. Any ideas regarding how to think about a suicidal child alter who didn’t undergo ritual abuse/programming?
David,
A child part who’s mind / behavior is not controlled by programming *should be* talkable to. If there is no programming there, then the child part has the ability to think – feel – choose – decide, and that means they have the ability to learn. They do not have to stay stuck — they can progress and move forward.
Learning new things is very important, and showing the child new things, positive things, pleasant experiences, and meeting their needs should make a significant difference in how suicidal they feel. Ask yourself, and ask those kid parts what they need / want / hope to have in order to feel better. Give them something that provides joy, fun, excitement, interest, pleasure… and work really hard at understanding what is going on for them. Maybe they need someone to listen more closely while they talk more? Maybe they need more comfort? Maybe they need more playtime? Ask them what they need — they will be able to tell you.
If you are unsure as to what they need, think about what external children need for a healthy learning environment, and then duplicate that for your internal children.
If their mind is not being externally controlled by anything or anyone else, then finding that something that positively appeals to the children should be do-able.
Keep working at it — you’ll find something that “fits” just right for them.
Kathy