This photo, titled Healing from Trauma, has many details in it that remind me of severe abuse by organized groups. Photo found at Kundalini spirit blogspot: Healing from trauma.
“Have you worked with clients that have ‘extreme torture’ trauma history in cult-RA and/or mind-control (governmental experiments)? If so, what has worked?”
Thanks for the question. What a doozy!!!
Yes, I have worked with trauma survivors that have talked about extreme torture, cult / RA abuse, mind control and governmental experiment traumas. Bunches of clients through the years have spoken in detail about many of these things.
All of these survivors have also presented with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID/MPD), as these extreme, sadistic tortures cause splits to occur.
That’s the easy part to answer. The harder question is addressing the “what has worked” part!
The face of trauma, from the movie “Hide and Seek”, 2005. This movie (with Dakota Fanning and Robert De Neiro) is about mind control.
And since this is a ritual holiday weekend, I thought this might be a good time to address these extreme abuses. I am sure that many of my readers have been experiencing difficult memories and flashbacks this weekend. It’s heavy on my mind that many others could be experiencing current-day traumas as we speak, so it seems to be an appropriate time to address this topic.
As far as “what works,” that is a very complex question.
The simple answer is, basic good trauma therapy, listening closely to the inside parts, soothing the pain, creating more internal (and external) safety, reconnecting those parts with the rest of the system, and addressing the concerns raised by those internal parts in all the normal ways, etc. Many of the very same processes that work to help heal “regular abuse” continue to be effective in addressing more extreme abuses.
Mind control and programming are very complicated topics.
Most people who have been programmed with various mind control techniques have experienced some of the most hideous of abuses. Healing comes by processing the traumas, but also in freeing the mind from the controls of the abusers. The various techniques and approaches to deprogramming are quite complex — I’ll write more specifics about that on another day.
Healing the wounds of the heart… so much emotional pain . Photo found at lciministry.org/trauma
Working with the trauma memories themselves is much the same — start by hearing the story of what happened.
Because of the level of pain and violence involved, it is very common to have more than one insider involved with any specific RA memory. So, be sure to check with a variety of parts in the system to hear what they know, to understand what they saw or felt or heard or smelled.
It is also common for a person to split off new parts during extreme tortures, so you might find that you are meeting a bunch of new insiders while you are working on these extreme abuses.
These inside parts each helped you to survive some of the most horrible of abuses, so welcome each of them into your world.
It is absolutely essential to remember that the inside parts are not the “bad guys”. Don’t “kill the messengers” of this bad news. No one finds memories of cult / RA / sex slavery stuff to be good news. However, your internal people didn’t create these original traumas — they just lived through it, and they survived.
Recognize your insiders as your heroes, not as people to be feared.
Of course, these internal parts with dark-side roots will have been taught dark-side things and would have been expected to behave in dark-side ways. That’s all they know. Don’t expect them to present as goodness and light when they have only participated in the dark worlds.
Some of these insiders might not have ever even seen the day-side world or light-side activities.
They will likely have been locked away from all that, contained and controlled by their perpetrators. They will be as disconnected from your everyday “normal” life as you are from their hidden dark worlds. They will have been already told how terrible and horrible your day-side world is, and they will be initially resistant to your efforts.
This is normal. Don’t get discouraged.
The perpetrators planned ahead for this and have created various system “blocks” to prevent easy access to these parts.
Photo by Probably Okay.
The fact that you are meeting them is HUGE.
VERY uncomfortable.
And VERY important.
They are courageously breaking the first rules given to them by even admitting and showing their existence to you. Breaking the rules of silence is not easy, so expect the road to be bumpy. And, these dark-side parts will need a lot of time to work though the years of gunk they have experienced.
Healing comes as you can claim these parts as your own people.
Listen to them. Hear their experiences. Address their concerns, fears, anger, etc. Remember, it is very likely that they have heard ONLY teachings from the dark side. They won’t initially believe you or agree with you. They have already been taught and programmed to think dark things.
This is an important point in your healing.
Do you truly believe that the dark teaching of the cult / mind control programmers is the life you want to lead?
Or, do you want to figure out and do whatever it takes to have a life based on the light side?
This decision will be tested over and over again, but it belongs to you and only you. No one in the world can literally “make you” be who you do not want to be. The programming controls can make it hard for you to be yourself, and those controls can influence your behavior, but you as the person, with freedom of thought, and the power to decide for yourself, can genuinely break their controls over you.
Let me say that again:
you as your very own person, with freedom of thought, and the power to decide for yourself, can genuinely break their controls over you.
This is hard. It is not easy.
They do not put in years of programmed training-trauma-abuse for no reason. Those predators have had every intention of controlling your life, for your whole life.
Breaking their control can happen.
It does happen. I’ve seen it happen.
AND, it will take a whopping lot of hard, grueling, intense work on your part.
There is an entire book of information to write on this topic. But, none of the things that “work” will matter two hoots if you haven’t gotten this first step down pat:
The fact is, all the people in your system belong to you.
The programmers will have told the dark ones, they belong to “them” — that is a lie.
The people in your system came from your head — from your splits — from your life. They are yours.
Healing from RA and mind control means that you are willing to do what it takes to get them back, and to show them that they do not have to stay stranded or stuck in those dark worlds.
Here are some soul-searching questions to ask yourself:
What could your dark-side people say to you that will push you away from wanting to work with them?
Do you really want parts of yourself to be controlled, manipulated, owned, and used by the cult or programmers or sex slavery organizations? Why or why not?
Are you willing to do what it takes to claim all your inner people back to you? Why or why not?
Are you willing to hear in detail what these dark-side parts have been through in their experiences? Why or why not?
Are you willing to fight on their behalf, even if they are mean and ugly to you at first? Why or why not?
Do you really need those chains?? What would happen if you got rid of them? How would it feel to be free? Ask yourself lots of questions, and learn to think for yourself. Your freedom can be worth the effort, and yes, you can gain freedom from your abuse.
These fundamental decisions are crucial to your healing work.
To get through the process, you will need to be firmly planted on one side of the fence.
I don’t expect a reply. It’s OK. Just wanted to say, how do you know if insiders have had this stuff to survive? I don’t know any of it but am told and shown internally, pictures. As have T’s been told things from very young insiders who struggle with language. T has mentioned RA to me and I am clueless. So confused. Will try to get to forum more when I am able. Thankyou
We be reading some of these articles again because we trying to help some new kids that be acting very difficult. And they be making us have bad head aches and body hurt in private places cuz of stuff they remember. So maybe reading these articles again we can learn something new. We really need to,figure out how to help inside kids better.
It felt important to try to read this…but we could only skim it…too much Internal chaos…We don’t know if we belong here or not….we don’t know WHAT we are….we just know there is a very black tunnel that goes deep and we have seen – at times – bad stuff that we somehow know belongs in there….a “part” and a “scene” that CAN’T be part of who we are……”Symbolic” stuff that we know HAS to be “symbolic” ….(Cause HOW can there be – Inside – a “Wheel of Fortune” wheel positioned like a merry-go-round…with a frozen part sitting on one of the “triangles”….just spinning …and spinning…) ……So – WHY are we seeing them?……How can we be “copying” anybody?….We haven’t heard ANYBODY else say “I have a spinning ‘Wheel of Fortune’ wheel Inside!”…..What we see makes NO sense to our “brain”……we have no “brain” memory…but it “feels” real – like it “makes sense” SOMEWHERE – but we don’t know WHERE……we feel like we are crazy….
Maybe we don’t belong here – at all…..Maybe we are making everything up…. For attention?…. For worth?……But WHO in their right mind would want “attention” or “worth” like that?…(you just end up sounding crazy)…. Maybe, it’s because we can’t figure out how to “fit in” anywhere else….we don’t fit in nowhere….we are so lost….(Objective is being really “brave” right now – but we may have to “pay for it” later)……
We are SO messed up….these past 2 1/2 weeks have been rough….Earthworms aside – WHO (in their right mind) would name a full moon after “worms”?…..ugh……Maybe we are imagining stuff – so WHY do we want to cry….WHY do we want to run…but we feel “frozen” and really confused……There must be something really wrong with us…..we are such a mess…..
We don’t know WHAT direction to turn because we don’t know WHAT we are……(If we are making stuff up….sorry….we don’t want to mess nobody else up…..)
I’m glad you posted on this topic, but also makes me terribly sad. The only therapist we tried to broach the subject with said we were “too much” and our system “too complex”, so not tons of healing around this subject. No other therapist in my area will even give you an appointment where I am if you admit to a DID diagnosis, let alone extreme torture. I do my best to take care of everyone, but so many memories to keep hidden as no one to talk with outside. How do you heal from this when you’re doing it alone without help of a therapist? Moving isn’t an option and Skype therapy isn’t either as all my extra money is going towards extremely high medical bills just to keep this body alive due to severe and rare physical illnesses. I try to stay positive, make a difference for others, but must admit hope is waning as I get sicker, which I’m fairly certain is connected to my past trauma. Any advice on how to do therapy alone? Read so many books, journal lots, art… what else???
I’m so sorry things are the way they are. It makes me mad to think that a therapist would call you “too much!” That is really not fair and unprofessional. You are trying your best and I think you’re really on the right track. I know it may seem like everything is impossible right now, but there is hope, because you are doing the right things. Yes, books, journaling a lot, art, all are positive things. Coming here and reading and commenting are great too. Yes, you’re doing the best you can. I don’t really have a lot to offer besides what you’ve already mentioned, but reading books has honestly been the best thing for me. Especially books with exercises that help you to communicate with your insiders. Cuz that’s probably the most crucial thing that you can do, and a therapist can’t do that for you anyway.
I just want you know that you’re not alone. Please keep reaching out and we’ll support you anyway we all can.
Lizzie
Have you tried contacting you insurance most insurance providers have list of Qualified professionals. (At lest in the USA) You could also ask your prim care physician to recommend someone . Even the therapist that said you were to complicated . Should be able to refer you to someone to help .
we have survived this horrible torture and it takes a dedicated therapist with knowledge in RA/SRA and DID. it is hard to find, but my therapist has both. you have to know the difference between evil and parts that are created from the torture. we found emdr to be helpful for deprogramming. knowing many with did aren’t open the this technique (we weren’t either, at first). but again it takes a highly skilled and trained therapist. we are extremely grateful she is and we have found healing from this horrific time. of course, this was our experience, it’s not for everyone. allowing each part to speak was first and foremost the beginning steps to healing!! communicate, reassure them it’s okay and safe. bless you all!
Thank you for this ray of hope. I did not experience RA/SRA but many of my friends here have and I am very concerned for them. Knowing that there are folks who have/are working through their trauma successfully is something wonderful to read. Takes some of my fears away. I hope that it does so for others here as well.
As for EMDR, my husband has had many, many EMDR sessions (and EMDR Flash) for his PTSD and it has been super helpful for him. From my understanding, you have to have a therapist who is very experienced with EMDR and DID for it to be successful for multiples. The community had a discussion about EMDR on the “Our Normal Complicated Selves” (version 1 near the top of the page I think). If folks are curious about other’s experiences with EMDR, I would suggest checking out the postings there.
ME+WE,
glad you found hope in the comment. Isn’t that why we are here for each other?? 🤗
you are right, don’t engage in emdr unless your therapist is trained specifically in emdr w did. it’s a tool, used in therapy, like many other things- thankful it was helpful us us!
Bang on right kml – we are here to hear, share and support one another. Just when we think that the world is a dark and lonely place, we can always open this door and find a ray of hope in our DD community.
How do you know when stuff is not normal? When does sexual abuse become physical abuse? When does physical become torture? What is torture? Why do we be sure we will die if we tell? Why do we want to self destruct/destroy when we try? What if we did bad stuff with other kids but we didn’t no it was bad? There was only one person who hurt us but he had not just one face. How much bad can one person do? Different bad in different places with different things but the same every time and all the time. Too many memories too many questions too many blurry lines. How do you know what is good what is bad what is worse????????
Just curious..I have only recently come across your articles thanks to a facebook group I am part of. Anyhow…Have you since written anything about ***”The various techniques and approaches to de-programming yet? We are struggling so badly in therapy, and party because it seems we can’t work on anything but safety related stuff (actually getting away from SRA)….it seems like every time we think we have everyone on board and not going and listening to the different programming anymore, it seems it “wakes” up more who then need to understand the programming, and that it doesn’t have to be that way and so on. It just seems like such a long process and I so badly don’t want to be hurt any longer, yet unless I get the de-programming such done, it seems like that risk will continue to be there…and since that is ALWAYS the main focus we aren’t getting much other work done. So I was just curious to read about any techniques you know… Thank you, I am finding so many of your articles very helpful and inspiring, and some of course painful and hard too…but honest, and I feel like I am being understood, many in us are going , yes. yep, thats true, and its nice to know somebody seems to understand when there are sooo sooo many that dont.
What if you cant ever get away from it because…well because of lots of reasons and the dark side and the dark ones are bigger than the light and maybe there really isnt any hope. Maybe not everyne escapes programming. What of the programming is the truth after all?
Pilgrim,
Sometimes I don’t think there is any hope but someone does or you wouldn’t be here talking and asking…. for me a lot of days I feel hopeless and helpless…. but I can’t really do much about how I feel except just to recognize that it stinks… sometimes literally… the sun doesn’t always sun, and storms don’t last forever…
Everything comes and goes…. remember you went through the hard part already.
There isn’t a quick fix for this… some of you won’t believe what anyone says bc that’s what they truly believe (program or not) …. just you asking if it’s the truth is probably stirring up some emotions. I’ve learned that parts regardless of their trauma, sometimes really want to hold on to the memory or anything bc that’s what they know and who they think they are. I still struggle with having some of those parts to redirect “stuff” (I’m trying not to make this triggering for anyone else reading…I hope you can follow)
How do you redirect the only stuff they know….. ???? Don’t know sometimes I just hang on… I try to be very patient with them and try to be as understanding as I can be… doesn’t always work….
I know many ppl don’t seem to understand bc they don’t believe it happened but I know it did…. and we can be here for each other…..
All sorts of stuff may be going on inside … I have to ask other ppl to help remind me that car wasn’t there or that type of tree….. I can pick up something and logically know it wasn’t there but it doesn’t feel like it…. But you know this whole DID …RA.. sucks…. Holidays suck…. flashbacks suck…. when you are come out of the crap or at least surface… DID can be funny sometimes….
Hang in there
I’m really understand everything you’re going through and it makes a lot of us 😡 mad… bc it doesn’t seem to stop…. it actually “slows” down a bit and that’s how sometimes I have to hold on. I know you posted awhile back and it is like every time you turn around it’s another reminder. I don’t know how long u have been in therapy or even have a therapist that understands (or ur system thinks) what u have gone through and continue to go through. Sometimes half of me doesn’t believe it which is BS… At times I can get through it…. and really the definition of that for me is staying alive and not acting on what I’m being told… sometimes I have to literally sit on my hands until the urges and voice(s) goes….. hopefully I can get some anxiety meds in me first…. I have to get away from everyone any all of our animals and lock the door so no one comes in. At times I let them ( not the ….) rip up paper, cut out pics that remind them of what they went through, draw what occurred, scribble with black or red ink or crayon really hard until I’m crying….
some years on the holidays I felt remorse and was able to do something for someone else…. like on my Bday I was able to put together a diaper bag for of neonatal stuff and donate to a hospital…
I’m really sorry for your pain and I understand it… I don’t know if it the memories will stop but I know I’ve been able to cope sometimes better that others.. And sometimes I have to go to the hospital…. I’m really sorry for all of you
Well I’m getting some crap…..but if I can help someone who went through the same i will take the crap 💩
Reblogged this on Trauma and Dissociation and commented:
This is an important topic and fear of discussing it and fear of facing such trauma can stop survivors healing.
The comments at the end are especially valuable, as is Kathy’s point that internal people aren’t the ones who create the original traumas – they are the ones who had to survive it.
This is an important topic and fear of discussing it and fear of facing such trauma can stop survivors healing.
The comments at the end are especially valuable, as is Kathy’s point that internal people aren’t the ones who create the original traumas – they are the ones who had to survive it.
Thank you, Trauma and Dissociation.
Your comments, reblogs and retweets have been very much appreciated, and I applaud you with the extensive effort and energy you have had in providing excellent resources about dissociation and trauma. You’re doing a great job – please keep up the good work.
Warmly,
Kathy
Reblogged this on Discussing Dissociation and commented:
This 2008 post was written specifically for the Winter Solstice weekend. We are back at that time again, so I’ll send this one out again, a little bit ahead. I hope it’s helpful and encouraging for those of you struggling with these very difficult issues. Warmly,
Kathy
Hang in there…healing is possible for everyone and you deserve it as well. Even when it feels impossible.
Your trauma can’t be undone, but it can be healed from, and the harmful things you were taught can be unlearned.
Obviously i dont ned anybodys fucking time and attention
And nobody needs to know what my fucking story is
Nobodys gonna stay around to fucking listen
Nobody gives a shit
And youre right i am not going away
I am gonna make THEM go away
I like to make them hurt
Because i like pain
Cuz life is all about pain
Evryebody knows that
What if there so mene and there geting mener
And what if them think it funy to copy the bad pepol
What if them like to make pepol hert
Wat if you cant get awway from them
Hi Pilgrim –
Where did they learn these things?
What are they telling you in the ways that they are behaving?
Who showed them how to be so mean?
Why are these insiders a part of your Pilgrim people? Where did they come from?
What are their life stories?
Why do they like to make people hurt? How is that a good thing for them? What is their reward for doing that?
If they are part of your system, you won’t be able to get them to go away. They are there because you needed them to be there, at some point in time in your life. What else can you learn about them?
Maybe they are showing you the only things that they know?
Try to show them other sides of the world. Show them why they don’t have to be so mean and hurtful. Give them some other ideas for how to experience their life…
Keep working with them tho’. They clearly need your time and attention!
what if you cant talk about it because you cant make the words come out of your mouth?
sorry to post here again. i didn’t know our name already had 3 replies here. it wasn’t me, i swear.
jo
It is absolutely essential to remember that the inside parts are not the “bad guys”.
disagree.
•What could your dark-side people say to you that will push you away from wanting to work with them?
that is something that can’t be written on a public forum. But there is a LOT that could be said.
So recognize them as your heroes, not as people to be feared.
disagree BIG TIME. There are some who should be feared.
feel free to delete. people don’t generally want to hear what someone on the dark side has to say.
i will be very interested in what you have to say concerning the way to remove the training that is so damaging to any person. as if the abuse were not hideous enough, there are many people who refuse to believe it exists. seeking healing is the only way to go for me. i had to find answers to why i had certain behaviors, reactions to random things in my life. babies crying used to send me into such distress. finding out why was such a relief even though the answer made me sick.
you are right. it is hard. but it is the only way out – right through the middle. i never liked the word deprogramming because it reminded me of people who got stuck in cults like the “moonies”.
Hi Multipixie,
Thanks for your comments, and for sharing your thoughts.
I think it is important and helpful to understand where the triggers are coming from. Not only does that help remove their potency, it also gives the person greater peace of mind. A bit part of removing the effects of the programming is by doing exactly what you said — having the courage to find out what the actual triggers are about. It is typically very hard to face the harsh painful truth about what happened, and as sickening as it can feel initially, it is the undoing. Having the courage to look at the trauma really can take away its power to control you.
Thank you for taking the time to make this post. It’s very well thought out and full of truths.
We are not fond of the word “programming” as it come with so much “drama.” What every multiple needs is LESS drama. The thing for mind control manipulation there’s really no other word that fits. I wish there was a way to take the “crazy” out of the word programming, but it seems it’s here to stay.
Changing scripts (crazy neutral word for programming) that have been learned/trained into people and the system is really hard work. Sometimes the steps back are way more then 2 – 1 and that can be discouraging, that’s where a therapist can hold optimism steady. Of course the rather neat thing about being multiple is that one person can research while others are dredging thru the muck and mire of what was done. Eventually it has to come together in the same room (so to speak) for everyone to get some validation and to make changes long term.
It’s the long term work that gets ever so frustrating and well really who doesn’t want the “how to” manual!
***”The various techniques and approaches to de-programming are quite complex — I’ll write more specifics about that on another day.”***
Hi Ravin,
It’s good to see you here again. I’m glad you came back.
And I’m really glad you found my post about RA / MC to be full of truths. There is so much “junk” written out there. I am not a cult-survivor, so all that I have learned has come directly from listening intently to my clients and their insiders talk about their RA-MC experiences. Plus, I ask a whole lot of questions, so I learn a lot that way too. And, there are some basic repeated issues in RA / MC that seem to relate to most survivors of extreme abuse, no matter what their specific trauma’s were.
And, yes, if anyone is wondering, I genuinely believe people can find healing from even these most extreme abuses.
I am not fond of the word “programming” either. I don’t like the word because I refuse to accept that a real person should be treated like an object or a computer. I realize that is exactly what the “programmers” do, and I suppose that is exactly why I don’t like it. (I won’t get to ranting about my view of the creeps right now.) But it is the common word, so for “language sake”, I’ll use it. You can use the word scripts now, and I’ll know what you are referring to. Works for me! Mental manipulation is also a very good term for it. The point being – I know it exists, and I understand that the techniques used for planting mind controls are extremely traumatic, and I know that it takes a whopping lot of work to break free from those controls.
And, it happens. Absolutely. If you the person are determined to be free from the way mind control manipulates you, then yes, you can make decisions in your life, and get the healing / therapy required to be free from it. For that matter – let me encourage you now by saying even today, right now, I’m sure there are parts of you that hold the human ability to think and reason for themselves. Keep talking with them. They will be extremely helpful in your healing process.
It will be a little bit before I get back to writing about de-programming techniques, but… let me again refer you to RockingComplacency’s blog as she has been writing lots of tips about how to address programming issues all throughout her articles. http://rockingcomplacency.wordpress.com . And this week, RockerGirl has started a whole series on therapy-specific programming. These are complicated issues, but I can say that I’ve seen a variety of people approach therapy while stuck in these kinds of mind-controlled thinking patterns. It’s no fun for anyone, but it is important work to address.
I hope things are going well and I hope this new year is a good one for you –
Thanks for posting.
Kathy
“So, be sure to check with a variety of parts in the system to hear what they know, to understand what they saw or felt or heard or smelled. It is also common for a person to split off new parts during extreme tortures, so you might find that you are meeting a bunch of new insiders while you are working on these extreme abuses. These inside parts each helped you to survive some of the most horrible of abuses, so welcome each of them into your world.”
This has sure proved true for us. “saw, felt, heard, smelled” are often each held by a different person. Soooooo weird to have a vivid memory of a smell but absolutely nothing else to go with it.
h you. They have already been taught and programmed to think dark things.
I don’t expect a reply. It’s OK. Just wanted to say, how do you know if insiders have had this stuff to survive? I don’t know any of it but am told and shown internally, pictures. As have T’s been told things from very young insiders who struggle with language. T has mentioned RA to me and I am clueless. So confused. Will try to get to forum more when I am able. Thankyou
We be reading some of these articles again because we trying to help some new kids that be acting very difficult. And they be making us have bad head aches and body hurt in private places cuz of stuff they remember. So maybe reading these articles again we can learn something new. We really need to,figure out how to help inside kids better.
I dnt blong to nowun
I be a Bg ugle mostr
If ppl got to no me thay wud run
That jus wut thay owaz du
I be tu much
I drwnin in memrez 💦
You’re not a monster
You deserve people who will get to know you and not only stay, but love you for all you are.
It felt important to try to read this…but we could only skim it…too much Internal chaos…We don’t know if we belong here or not….we don’t know WHAT we are….we just know there is a very black tunnel that goes deep and we have seen – at times – bad stuff that we somehow know belongs in there….a “part” and a “scene” that CAN’T be part of who we are……”Symbolic” stuff that we know HAS to be “symbolic” ….(Cause HOW can there be – Inside – a “Wheel of Fortune” wheel positioned like a merry-go-round…with a frozen part sitting on one of the “triangles”….just spinning …and spinning…) ……So – WHY are we seeing them?……How can we be “copying” anybody?….We haven’t heard ANYBODY else say “I have a spinning ‘Wheel of Fortune’ wheel Inside!”…..What we see makes NO sense to our “brain”……we have no “brain” memory…but it “feels” real – like it “makes sense” SOMEWHERE – but we don’t know WHERE……we feel like we are crazy….
Maybe we don’t belong here – at all…..Maybe we are making everything up…. For attention?…. For worth?……But WHO in their right mind would want “attention” or “worth” like that?…(you just end up sounding crazy)…. Maybe, it’s because we can’t figure out how to “fit in” anywhere else….we don’t fit in nowhere….we are so lost….(Objective is being really “brave” right now – but we may have to “pay for it” later)……
We are SO messed up….these past 2 1/2 weeks have been rough….Earthworms aside – WHO (in their right mind) would name a full moon after “worms”?…..ugh……Maybe we are imagining stuff – so WHY do we want to cry….WHY do we want to run…but we feel “frozen” and really confused……There must be something really wrong with us…..we are such a mess…..
We don’t know WHAT direction to turn because we don’t know WHAT we are……(If we are making stuff up….sorry….we don’t want to mess nobody else up…..)
MissyMing
03/21/20
I’m glad you posted on this topic, but also makes me terribly sad. The only therapist we tried to broach the subject with said we were “too much” and our system “too complex”, so not tons of healing around this subject. No other therapist in my area will even give you an appointment where I am if you admit to a DID diagnosis, let alone extreme torture. I do my best to take care of everyone, but so many memories to keep hidden as no one to talk with outside. How do you heal from this when you’re doing it alone without help of a therapist? Moving isn’t an option and Skype therapy isn’t either as all my extra money is going towards extremely high medical bills just to keep this body alive due to severe and rare physical illnesses. I try to stay positive, make a difference for others, but must admit hope is waning as I get sicker, which I’m fairly certain is connected to my past trauma. Any advice on how to do therapy alone? Read so many books, journal lots, art… what else???
Hi Lizzie,
I’m so sorry things are the way they are. It makes me mad to think that a therapist would call you “too much!” That is really not fair and unprofessional. You are trying your best and I think you’re really on the right track. I know it may seem like everything is impossible right now, but there is hope, because you are doing the right things. Yes, books, journaling a lot, art, all are positive things. Coming here and reading and commenting are great too. Yes, you’re doing the best you can. I don’t really have a lot to offer besides what you’ve already mentioned, but reading books has honestly been the best thing for me. Especially books with exercises that help you to communicate with your insiders. Cuz that’s probably the most crucial thing that you can do, and a therapist can’t do that for you anyway.
I just want you know that you’re not alone. Please keep reaching out and we’ll support you anyway we all can.
MultipleMe
9/26/18
Lizzie
Have you tried contacting you insurance most insurance providers have list of Qualified professionals. (At lest in the USA) You could also ask your prim care physician to recommend someone . Even the therapist that said you were to complicated . Should be able to refer you to someone to help .
we have survived this horrible torture and it takes a dedicated therapist with knowledge in RA/SRA and DID. it is hard to find, but my therapist has both. you have to know the difference between evil and parts that are created from the torture. we found emdr to be helpful for deprogramming. knowing many with did aren’t open the this technique (we weren’t either, at first). but again it takes a highly skilled and trained therapist. we are extremely grateful she is and we have found healing from this horrific time. of course, this was our experience, it’s not for everyone. allowing each part to speak was first and foremost the beginning steps to healing!! communicate, reassure them it’s okay and safe. bless you all!
Hi kml,
Thank you for this ray of hope. I did not experience RA/SRA but many of my friends here have and I am very concerned for them. Knowing that there are folks who have/are working through their trauma successfully is something wonderful to read. Takes some of my fears away. I hope that it does so for others here as well.
As for EMDR, my husband has had many, many EMDR sessions (and EMDR Flash) for his PTSD and it has been super helpful for him. From my understanding, you have to have a therapist who is very experienced with EMDR and DID for it to be successful for multiples. The community had a discussion about EMDR on the “Our Normal Complicated Selves” (version 1 near the top of the page I think). If folks are curious about other’s experiences with EMDR, I would suggest checking out the postings there.
ME+WE
09/22/18
ME+WE,
glad you found hope in the comment. Isn’t that why we are here for each other?? 🤗
you are right, don’t engage in emdr unless your therapist is trained specifically in emdr w did. it’s a tool, used in therapy, like many other things- thankful it was helpful us us!
Bang on right kml – we are here to hear, share and support one another. Just when we think that the world is a dark and lonely place, we can always open this door and find a ray of hope in our DD community.
😊👍🤗
ME+WE
09/23/18
Hello.
This was mentioned.
“◦Have you read RockingComplacency’s article about RA? If not — please do. http://rockingcomplacency.wordpress.com”
But if you go there it says it has all been taken down and will become an ebook over here.
I cannot find it…
Thanks for any help.
Wren
1-7-2018
lots of times it feels like theres no real way out. and no one wants to hear what happened. people dont like to hear that stuff.
How do you know when stuff is not normal? When does sexual abuse become physical abuse? When does physical become torture? What is torture? Why do we be sure we will die if we tell? Why do we want to self destruct/destroy when we try? What if we did bad stuff with other kids but we didn’t no it was bad? There was only one person who hurt us but he had not just one face. How much bad can one person do? Different bad in different places with different things but the same every time and all the time. Too many memories too many questions too many blurry lines. How do you know what is good what is bad what is worse????????
Just curious..I have only recently come across your articles thanks to a facebook group I am part of. Anyhow…Have you since written anything about ***”The various techniques and approaches to de-programming yet? We are struggling so badly in therapy, and party because it seems we can’t work on anything but safety related stuff (actually getting away from SRA)….it seems like every time we think we have everyone on board and not going and listening to the different programming anymore, it seems it “wakes” up more who then need to understand the programming, and that it doesn’t have to be that way and so on. It just seems like such a long process and I so badly don’t want to be hurt any longer, yet unless I get the de-programming such done, it seems like that risk will continue to be there…and since that is ALWAYS the main focus we aren’t getting much other work done. So I was just curious to read about any techniques you know… Thank you, I am finding so many of your articles very helpful and inspiring, and some of course painful and hard too…but honest, and I feel like I am being understood, many in us are going , yes. yep, thats true, and its nice to know somebody seems to understand when there are sooo sooo many that dont.
What if you cant ever get away from it because…well because of lots of reasons and the dark side and the dark ones are bigger than the light and maybe there really isnt any hope. Maybe not everyne escapes programming. What of the programming is the truth after all?
Pilgrim,
Sometimes I don’t think there is any hope but someone does or you wouldn’t be here talking and asking…. for me a lot of days I feel hopeless and helpless…. but I can’t really do much about how I feel except just to recognize that it stinks… sometimes literally… the sun doesn’t always sun, and storms don’t last forever…
Everything comes and goes…. remember you went through the hard part already.
There isn’t a quick fix for this… some of you won’t believe what anyone says bc that’s what they truly believe (program or not) …. just you asking if it’s the truth is probably stirring up some emotions. I’ve learned that parts regardless of their trauma, sometimes really want to hold on to the memory or anything bc that’s what they know and who they think they are. I still struggle with having some of those parts to redirect “stuff” (I’m trying not to make this triggering for anyone else reading…I hope you can follow)
How do you redirect the only stuff they know….. ???? Don’t know sometimes I just hang on… I try to be very patient with them and try to be as understanding as I can be… doesn’t always work….
I know many ppl don’t seem to understand bc they don’t believe it happened but I know it did…. and we can be here for each other…..
All sorts of stuff may be going on inside … I have to ask other ppl to help remind me that car wasn’t there or that type of tree….. I can pick up something and logically know it wasn’t there but it doesn’t feel like it…. But you know this whole DID …RA.. sucks…. Holidays suck…. flashbacks suck…. when you are come out of the crap or at least surface… DID can be funny sometimes….
Hang in there
Its comeng agin 🙁
Nuthing works
I’m really understand everything you’re going through and it makes a lot of us 😡 mad… bc it doesn’t seem to stop…. it actually “slows” down a bit and that’s how sometimes I have to hold on. I know you posted awhile back and it is like every time you turn around it’s another reminder. I don’t know how long u have been in therapy or even have a therapist that understands (or ur system thinks) what u have gone through and continue to go through. Sometimes half of me doesn’t believe it which is BS… At times I can get through it…. and really the definition of that for me is staying alive and not acting on what I’m being told… sometimes I have to literally sit on my hands until the urges and voice(s) goes….. hopefully I can get some anxiety meds in me first…. I have to get away from everyone any all of our animals and lock the door so no one comes in. At times I let them ( not the ….) rip up paper, cut out pics that remind them of what they went through, draw what occurred, scribble with black or red ink or crayon really hard until I’m crying….
some years on the holidays I felt remorse and was able to do something for someone else…. like on my Bday I was able to put together a diaper bag for of neonatal stuff and donate to a hospital…
I’m really sorry for your pain and I understand it… I don’t know if it the memories will stop but I know I’ve been able to cope sometimes better that others.. And sometimes I have to go to the hospital…. I’m really sorry for all of you
Well I’m getting some crap…..but if I can help someone who went through the same i will take the crap 💩
Reblogged this on Trauma and Dissociation and commented:
This is an important topic and fear of discussing it and fear of facing such trauma can stop survivors healing.
The comments at the end are especially valuable, as is Kathy’s point that internal people aren’t the ones who create the original traumas – they are the ones who had to survive it.
This is an important topic and fear of discussing it and fear of facing such trauma can stop survivors healing.
The comments at the end are especially valuable, as is Kathy’s point that internal people aren’t the ones who create the original traumas – they are the ones who had to survive it.
Thank you, Trauma and Dissociation.
Your comments, reblogs and retweets have been very much appreciated, and I applaud you with the extensive effort and energy you have had in providing excellent resources about dissociation and trauma. You’re doing a great job – please keep up the good work.
Warmly,
Kathy
thanks Kathy, I’l pass that onto the others!
Reblogged this on Discussing Dissociation and commented:
This 2008 post was written specifically for the Winter Solstice weekend. We are back at that time again, so I’ll send this one out again, a little bit ahead. I hope it’s helpful and encouraging for those of you struggling with these very difficult issues. Warmly,
Kathy
Thers no fucking thing as peace of mind
Theres no way to undo what got put in my head
Theres no fucking thing as healing
Only death.
Hang in there…healing is possible for everyone and you deserve it as well. Even when it feels impossible.
Your trauma can’t be undone, but it can be healed from, and the harmful things you were taught can be unlearned.
Obviously i dont ned anybodys fucking time and attention
And nobody needs to know what my fucking story is
Nobodys gonna stay around to fucking listen
Nobody gives a shit
And youre right i am not going away
I am gonna make THEM go away
I like to make them hurt
Because i like pain
Cuz life is all about pain
Evryebody knows that
What if there so mene and there geting mener
And what if them think it funy to copy the bad pepol
What if them like to make pepol hert
Wat if you cant get awway from them
Hi Pilgrim –
Where did they learn these things?
What are they telling you in the ways that they are behaving?
Who showed them how to be so mean?
Why are these insiders a part of your Pilgrim people? Where did they come from?
What are their life stories?
Why do they like to make people hurt? How is that a good thing for them? What is their reward for doing that?
If they are part of your system, you won’t be able to get them to go away. They are there because you needed them to be there, at some point in time in your life. What else can you learn about them?
Maybe they are showing you the only things that they know?
Try to show them other sides of the world. Show them why they don’t have to be so mean and hurtful. Give them some other ideas for how to experience their life…
Keep working with them tho’. They clearly need your time and attention!
Kathy
what if you cant talk about it because you cant make the words come out of your mouth?
sorry to post here again. i didn’t know our name already had 3 replies here. it wasn’t me, i swear.
jo
It is absolutely essential to remember that the inside parts are not the “bad guys”.
disagree.
•What could your dark-side people say to you that will push you away from wanting to work with them?
that is something that can’t be written on a public forum. But there is a LOT that could be said.
So recognize them as your heroes, not as people to be feared.
disagree BIG TIME. There are some who should be feared.
feel free to delete. people don’t generally want to hear what someone on the dark side has to say.
i will be very interested in what you have to say concerning the way to remove the training that is so damaging to any person. as if the abuse were not hideous enough, there are many people who refuse to believe it exists. seeking healing is the only way to go for me. i had to find answers to why i had certain behaviors, reactions to random things in my life. babies crying used to send me into such distress. finding out why was such a relief even though the answer made me sick.
you are right. it is hard. but it is the only way out – right through the middle. i never liked the word deprogramming because it reminded me of people who got stuck in cults like the “moonies”.
thanks for your efforts to teach and help.
Hi Multipixie,
Thanks for your comments, and for sharing your thoughts.
I think it is important and helpful to understand where the triggers are coming from. Not only does that help remove their potency, it also gives the person greater peace of mind. A bit part of removing the effects of the programming is by doing exactly what you said — having the courage to find out what the actual triggers are about. It is typically very hard to face the harsh painful truth about what happened, and as sickening as it can feel initially, it is the undoing. Having the courage to look at the trauma really can take away its power to control you.
Excellent work, Multipixie — keep going!
Kathy
KB
Thank you for taking the time to make this post. It’s very well thought out and full of truths.
We are not fond of the word “programming” as it come with so much “drama.” What every multiple needs is LESS drama. The thing for mind control manipulation there’s really no other word that fits. I wish there was a way to take the “crazy” out of the word programming, but it seems it’s here to stay.
Changing scripts (crazy neutral word for programming) that have been learned/trained into people and the system is really hard work. Sometimes the steps back are way more then 2 – 1 and that can be discouraging, that’s where a therapist can hold optimism steady. Of course the rather neat thing about being multiple is that one person can research while others are dredging thru the muck and mire of what was done. Eventually it has to come together in the same room (so to speak) for everyone to get some validation and to make changes long term.
It’s the long term work that gets ever so frustrating and well really who doesn’t want the “how to” manual!
***”The various techniques and approaches to de-programming are quite complex — I’ll write more specifics about that on another day.”***
I’m looking forward to that post. Thanks again.
Ravin
Hi Ravin,
It’s good to see you here again. I’m glad you came back.
And I’m really glad you found my post about RA / MC to be full of truths. There is so much “junk” written out there. I am not a cult-survivor, so all that I have learned has come directly from listening intently to my clients and their insiders talk about their RA-MC experiences. Plus, I ask a whole lot of questions, so I learn a lot that way too. And, there are some basic repeated issues in RA / MC that seem to relate to most survivors of extreme abuse, no matter what their specific trauma’s were.
And, yes, if anyone is wondering, I genuinely believe people can find healing from even these most extreme abuses.
I am not fond of the word “programming” either. I don’t like the word because I refuse to accept that a real person should be treated like an object or a computer. I realize that is exactly what the “programmers” do, and I suppose that is exactly why I don’t like it. (I won’t get to ranting about my view of the creeps right now.) But it is the common word, so for “language sake”, I’ll use it. You can use the word scripts now, and I’ll know what you are referring to. Works for me! Mental manipulation is also a very good term for it. The point being – I know it exists, and I understand that the techniques used for planting mind controls are extremely traumatic, and I know that it takes a whopping lot of work to break free from those controls.
And, it happens. Absolutely. If you the person are determined to be free from the way mind control manipulates you, then yes, you can make decisions in your life, and get the healing / therapy required to be free from it. For that matter – let me encourage you now by saying even today, right now, I’m sure there are parts of you that hold the human ability to think and reason for themselves. Keep talking with them. They will be extremely helpful in your healing process.
It will be a little bit before I get back to writing about de-programming techniques, but… let me again refer you to RockingComplacency’s blog as she has been writing lots of tips about how to address programming issues all throughout her articles. http://rockingcomplacency.wordpress.com . And this week, RockerGirl has started a whole series on therapy-specific programming. These are complicated issues, but I can say that I’ve seen a variety of people approach therapy while stuck in these kinds of mind-controlled thinking patterns. It’s no fun for anyone, but it is important work to address.
I hope things are going well and I hope this new year is a good one for you –
Thanks for posting.
Kathy
This has sure proved true for us. “saw, felt, heard, smelled” are often each held by a different person. Soooooo weird to have a vivid memory of a smell but absolutely nothing else to go with it.